What do you think of Kipchoge's argument: If you use Zoom/Microsoft Teams, you need to accept the new shoe technology

Boom. Shoe snowflakes destroyed by the GOAT

devils advocate wrote:

Doesn't make sense to me. I think he would feel differently if he got beaten by someone with Pistorius blades or an exoskeleton. Why doesn't MLB use aluminum bats? Why don't chess players all just use a computer?

The whole point of sport is to strive to achieve, unassisted. If your point is to develop technology to accomplish a goal better, that's just industry. That belongs to the hustle and bustle of ordinary life. Sport is sacred because it's pointless. Technological development can give interesting new possibilities for a sport, but just assisting humans to accomplish the core task goes against the whole reason for sport in the first place.

MLB kept wood bats while tennis went with new materials for rackets and pole vault went away from bamboo to fiberglass etc.. New bikes make a huge difference over old ones, they just draw the line at adding electric motors to the bike. Swimming had the fast body suits. All sports go through this. I say we make swimmers swim naked and runners run barefoot. Pole vaulters can wear shorts and use a bamboo pole. All bikes must be aluminum, and tennis rackets must go back to wood and cat gut!

Here’s the point everyone keeps forgetting: Kipchoge ran 2:00:25 WITHOUT these special carbon plated shoes. Sure, the shoes might have been what pushed him over the edge to break 2, but he was very close either way.

macdaddy 1.00 wrote:

jeremiahw wrote:

It shows that like most human beings, Kipchoge is not very bright. His argument makes no sense. Technology can lead to better PEDs or genetic manipulation or cloning. I interpret his statement as an implicit admission that he uses PEDs.

1) No need to insult Kipchoge. I find him to be extremely motivational and a great role model. It’s safe to say he’s more accomplished than just about anyone on this forum/website (in any professional domain) - including you.

2) PEDS, genetic manipulation, and cloning have basically always been illegal. Your argument is to use technology on something already illegal.

3) Shoes were legal. Technology made them better. Now they are illegal. Complete opposite.

You are not very bright either. Lance Armstrong is very accomplished but are you going to defer to him in terms of intelligence when he says something illogical? Well I suppose you might but some of us REFUSE to dumb ourselves down for your benefit.

MLB kept wood bats for safety reasons. The swimming body suits is a good analogy, tho.

If Saucony or Hoka had invented the first "cheater" shoes, they would have been banned shortly thereafter..............FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is the point of the World Record in this day & age; it is POINTLESS.

macdaddy 1.00 wrote:

1) No need to insult Kipchoge. I find him to be extremely motivational and a great role model. It’s safe to say he’s more accomplished than just about anyone on this forum/website (in any professional domain) - including you.

Being very accomplished doesn't make him intelligent. He's a world class runner, not a world class mind.

How come this isn't a VIP thread?

This is actually a great argument. If your workplace is requiring you be at home half the hours you work or your school is doing online class over zoom/microsoft teams, are you just not going to get with the technology? Are you just going to get fired or fail all your classes? Not a perfect analogy because the alphafly's aren't a requirement. But you don't have to accept using zoom/microsoft teams to end up using it anyway. You might think these measures are even overboard.

It's the concept of "either get with the technology or get left behind"

He should have said minimal assistance, records are meaningless if its the new technology that allowed you to break it.

You need at least clothes and shoes. Water and food is necessary for life in general

Ah to be over 60 and still running a bit. Wear the shoes I had in HS in the 70s and then put on the racing shoes of today and you already have a difference greater than the new shoes over the ones just before plates. Now yes, we have limits on shoes. Fair enough. Not above a certain height to gain mechanical advantage. No motors. Only a return on the mechanical effort expended, which in a shoe that low is a bit, but not much. So I agree with him. Not the analogy, but the advancement of fair shoes widely available and operating within limits. Otherwise you are all cheating in any current good racing shoes compared to the ones we had to use back when. But you just don’t notice. And that’s before we talk about track surfaces even.

(Note: I have read of reduced injury on the newer tracks or using the newer shoes. Enjoy your blessings. I got injured just as I approached my lifetime marathon goal.)

And using your logic, we might as all be running naked around a dirt track that might or might not be the correct distance like they did in ancient Greece.

I recommend this link about the development of ice skates. In 1865, Jackson Haines designed a skate that allowed jumps, spins and dance elements that had never been seen before. An even more profound change to ice skating than the current controversy about the Vaporfly an its effect on running.

https://sites.udel.edu/materialmatters/2018/03/05/skating-on-thin-ice-and-blades-how-equipment-transforms-sports/

Dumbest argument I have ever heard. That is like saying if you use a phone, you need to accept the new shows, because phones are an advancement of technology.

Just because he is a legendary runner does not make him brilliant. Also, he is selling the brand he represents.

kiowavt wrote:Otherwise you are all cheating in any current good racing shoes compared to the ones we had to use back when.

My first pair of “real” running shoes was the Books Drake. At the age of 15 I ran 1,000 miles over the summer, raced cross country, and winter miles in them. I think I raced in Addidas Jets spikes on a tarmac track in the Spring. Those Drakes were held together with tape and Shoe Goo. Racing in those Jets on the tarmac was like ice skating.

If you did anything other than that then you’re a cheater.

There you go Eliud.... of course he does what he is paid for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAKG-kbKeIo

why do people expect people who are famous for being athletic, or beautiful, or an actor etc to be intelligent and have anything worthwhile to say more than someone who is actually engaged to be intelligent?

as several posters have pointed out, this shows exactly why athletes get into drugs.

messi wrote:If Saucony or Hoka had invented the first "cheater" shoes, they would have been banned shortly thereafter..............FACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Fila invented the first 'cheater' shoes as far as I'm aware...

you must enter a username wrote:

Fila invented the first 'cheater' shoes as far as I'm aware...

To add some detail to that: Fila made a pair of light, high stack, soft, CF-plated shoes in the early 00's. They were meant to good. But they were relatively unheard of, and weren't being worn by the world 's best. So they unsurprisingly weren't setting any records and didn't kick up a fuss.

When the company that sponsors the world's best athletes then re-invents those same shoes about 15 years later, they start setting records. People get defensive and say these 'new' shoes shouldn't be allowed.

Ultimately if Nike didn't go down the 'cheater shoe' route, Nike shoes would still be setting WR's right now. They sponsor the world's best athletes, and many athletes. for various reasons are very good right now.

Just like how Adidas have managed to set a WR in the last year without using super shoes.

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