Brazier 35mpw myth

Impala31 wrote:

Brazier must be training like 12 times a week.

Let's say 3 times in the gym (wich is a lot) so that 9 workouts left.

So he's averaging 4miles per workout? come on.

That is obviously BS.

Dont tell me the guy runs only 6 times a week.

I bet on ~60mpw off season and 40-50 in summer.

Sure it could be an elabolate scheme that he been doing for years to think he is an insane talent. All the talk of dropping from 40mpw in HS to 25 in college was obviously all a smoke screen.

Seriously why would you think he is running 9x/week? Are there really any sprinters who are doing doubles with easy mileage in the morning? Once you starting thinking of him as a 400m runner doing the 800m versus a 1500m guy running the 800m, you expectations of what type of training he should be doing will change.

If you look at a lot of other top 800m guys there are a ton in that 30-50mpw range.. The low mileage guys tend to have a lot of gym/weight/plyo type workouts in addition to the running. Of course maybe they are all lying about their training.

It's the LR mileage dogma messing w rational thought.

Brazier split 45 and ran 1:43's at age 18.

Running more would just slow him down.

He has enough speed and fitness to run very solid training session w

minimal jogging. Walking and or waiting between reps is fine.

If he runs 20x 300 44-45 w 100m turn walk + 1 x 250m 32, he's really just cruising.

Writing that workout as ~2.05 miles total, really tells you nothing about the combination of speed and stamina to get through the session comfortably.

jogging between reps is ridiculously overrated.

If you want less recovery, take less rest. If you want more fatigue, do more reps.

Not a myth, Brazier is like Rudisha, a speed based 800m runner. Rudisha ran a similar mile age,37 is what I read in a article, but some times he went up to 45 now in the base phase.Like Brazier he never ran for more than an hour his longest run was 50 minutes.All of the best 800m are fast 400m runners, speed is key, some need high mileage some don't but if you can't drop a sub 48 400m it near impossible to be an elite 800m runner. I don't think brazier needs 35 mpw if he was already running 1:42 off 25, I think it would be better to focus on the 400m vs the 1500m. 800m runners do not need 80-100 mile weeks to thrive, they need speed, speed endurance and aerobic power.

dsrunner wrote:

It's the LR mileage dogma messing w rational thought.

Brazier split 45 and ran 1:43's at age 18.

Running more would just slow him down.

He has enough speed and fitness to run very solid training session w

minimal jogging. Walking and or waiting between reps is fine.

If he runs 20x 300 44-45 w 100m turn walk + 1 x 250m 32, he's really just cruising.

Writing that workout as ~2.05 miles total, really tells you nothing about the combination of speed and stamina to get through the session comfortably.

20x300 is 6000m which is a bit more than 2 miles:) Seriously though I wouldn't be shocked if he basically never does a workout longer than about 8x400. Speed workouts (think like 6x150) or anaerobic stuff like (500-300-200) don't really rack up the mileage.

To some extent the general point is that he isn't doing much in the terms of mileage. If the way you count warmups and rest periods makes it 45miles instead of miles, does anything really change?

I haven't seen very many of what I would consider "complete" training plans. The one I am aware of is Symmonds where he basically runs 50mpw for most of the season with a few 60mpw early in the base phase. And that is from a dude that was definitely more endurance based (i.e. mid 47 guy) than speed based.

paris2024hawk wrote:

Not a myth, Brazier is like Rudisha, a speed based 800m runner. Rudisha ran a similar mile age,37 is what I read in a article, but some times he went up to 45 now in the base phase.Like Brazier he never ran for more than an hour his longest run was 50 minutes.All of the best 800m are fast 400m runners, speed is key, some need high mileage some don't but if you can't drop a sub 48 400m it near impossible to be an elite 800m runner. I don't think brazier needs 35 mpw if he was already running 1:42 off 25, I think it would be better to focus on the 400m vs the 1500m. 800m runners do not need 80-100 mile weeks to thrive, they need speed, speed endurance and aerobic power.

Sorry I meant 37 on average an 55 in the base phase

I ran 2:00 and 4:33 off of less than 20 mpw in high school. Trained as a 600-800 runner in college with low volume, high intensity intervals and ran 1:54. We did around 20 mpw as well and as the season progressed, even less. The LRC slow twitchers can’t wrap their spaghetti noodle biceps and licorice thick hammies around the idea someone can run fast off low mileage.

This is letsrun. In low mileage threads like this, multiple posters will argue that he doesn't count warmup/cooldowns, doesn't count morning runs, and runs significantly more mileage in the offseason. They will then explain that his training is basically Lydiard-style once you take these factors into account.

Never try to convince letsrunners that an elite runner thrives on low mileage. It is a lost cause.

Nobody is shocked that as a 400/800 guy he can run such low mileage and still run 1:42. No one has said that. Running a 3:35 has never been done on such low mileage and on top of that guess what? He reportedly looked like he was jogging most of the race. At the end of the day his parents were also really talented Olympians. Don't come in here with your BS low mileage garbage by cherry picking one guy who hit the genetic lottery and on top of that is known to be speed based.

The not counting miles argument does not make sense. If he's doing 35 miles of quality per week how many easy miles must he run to stay uninjured? Enough that he would count them. You bet your ass Engels counts his easy miles and he would know Brazier doesn't count them and reveal the truth. There's no single road to get to fast times but you can bet that more mileage will prevail for the vast majority of athletes. Snell was plenty fast over 800 on a cinder track, how many high mileage guys does one need to disprove a handful of examples in history?

quality over quantity wrote:

Maybe you should meet more runners. I write down all running for the week but I do not see the value of adding one or two miles of warm up before track workout at 9 minutes per mile. Same for one or two mile runs post track workout at 9 minutes per mile.

The reason to track mileage at all is that total volume is perhaps the most important element of aerobic development. And easy miles are an important part of total volume.

high school xc coach wrote:

jogging between reps is ridiculously overrated.

If you want less recovery, take less rest. If you want more fatigue, do more reps.

I was saying in between too different workouts.

You can't just do lactic anaerobic workouts again and again without some kind of aerobic to balance.

quality over quantity wrote:

why would track miles not count? wrote:

I don't know anyone who counts their miles that way, and I am certain Brazier does not do that. That's very weird.

Maybe you should meet more runners. I write down all running for the week but I do not see the value of adding one or two miles of warm up before track workout at 9 minutes per mile. Same for one or two mile runs post track workout at 9 minutes per mile. When some asks you your mileage, you break out your calculator? It is not weird to only count mileage runs. If you go one a 45 mile bike ride instead of a 10 mile run, do you count that also?

You said you don't count miles you ran as part of a track workout like 5 x 2000m. Now you're saying you don't count warm-ups and cool-downs. Which is it? Make up your DAMN mind.

.zip wrote:

typical week for an 800 runner like Brazier might look like this.

Monday: 3-4 miles

Tuesday: 1.5 warm up+4x1k+1.5 cool down

Wednesday: 3 miles

Thursday: 1.5 up + 6x400,300,200+1.5

Friday: 6 miles

Saturday: 1.5+3x200,150,100+1.5

Sunday: 7-8 miles.

You think a world champion do only a 3miles run and call it a day?

Even if you add a lot a gym, drills, plyo it is still a super light week.

If brazier could run 1:42 out of this, he would run sub 1:40 easily with more training.

And if he could run under 1:40 he would train for it.

That makes no sens.

Also most of you guy pretend he is fine with low volume because he is a 400/800 guy.

But 400/800 don't run 1500 in 3:35. Actually they don't run 1500 at all because that's too long for their fast twich fibers and their lack of aerobic development.

His 1:42 is equivalent to a 3:29. So a 3:35 on 35 miles a week is not that surprising since he’s a 4/8 guy. 6 seconds is a lot at that level. I guess if he ran 50+ miles a week he could run sub 3:30. The thing is he doesn’t need 50+ to run a great 800, so that might never happen.

hhhhh wrote:

His 1:42 is equivalent to a 3:29. So a 3:35 on 35 miles a week is not that surprising since he’s a 4/8 guy. 6 seconds is a lot at that level. I guess if he ran 50+ miles a week he could run sub 3:30. The thing is he doesn’t need 50+ to run a great 800, so that might never happen.

I think the difference in perfomance would be bigger if the 35mpw was true.

And remeber he ran 3:35 in a time trial with a huge last 400 suggesting he had more in the legs.

Give him another try at monaco and he probably runs 3:33.

I believe he can run the times he has off of 35

mow. I was a 1:56.3 800m runner in high school but most of the year (8 months) I trained for basketball. I devoted 4 months out of the year to track and field and my highest mileage week was 8 miles. That 8 miles was done on my high school track in two separate runs. One run of 5 miles and the other was 3 miles. Interestingly enough, I ran my pr of 1:56.3 the same week that I ran 8 miles.

cb800 wrote:

I believe he can run the times he has off of 35

mow. I was a 1:56.3 800m runner in high school but most of the year (8 months) I trained for basketball. I devoted 4 months out of the year to track and field and my highest mileage week was 8 miles. That 8 miles was done on my high school track in two separate runs. One run of 5 miles and the other was 3 miles. Interestingly enough, I ran my pr of 1:56.3 the same week that I ran 8 miles.

this is from a movie called 8 mile

Off 47 and 3:35 it's debatable whether he really is a 400/800 runner.

His 35 mile per week claim was from 2 years ago and in any case is as likely as his claim he didn't know Salazar was being investigated!

https://www.runnersworld.com/runners-stories/a29513036/how-donavan-brazier-broke-american-record/

Impala31 wrote:

.zip wrote:

typical week for an 800 runner like Brazier might look like this.

Monday: 3-4 miles

Tuesday: 1.5 warm up+4x1k+1.5 cool down

Wednesday: 3 miles

Thursday: 1.5 up + 6x400,300,200+1.5

Friday: 6 miles

Saturday: 1.5+3x200,150,100+1.5

Sunday: 7-8 miles.

You think a world champion do only a 3miles run and call it a day?

Even if you add a lot a gym, drills, plyo it is still a super light week.

If brazier could run 1:42 out of this, he would run sub 1:40 easily with more training.

And if he could run under 1:40 he would train for it.

That makes no sens.

Also most of you guy pretend he is fine with low volume because he is a 400/800 guy.

But 400/800 don't run 1500 in 3:35. Actually they don't run 1500 at all because that's too long for their fast twich fibers and their lack of aerobic development.

Agree especially about going for a 3 mile run.

Rudisha run 50-70 mpw and has never even run a 1500

Coe made similar claims turned out he was running up to 70 mpw. He went training twice on Christmas day and even let slip about training 100 mile weeks once.