I got fired today

Dads right. Getting fired doesn’t look good on a resume. Should have left instead.

Integrity is more important than a paycheck.

If I am hiring and this is your story, you would still be looking. What were you expecting to gain by criticizing? Do you have all the facts they do? You likely had a narrow view and some opinions. You didn’t mention going to them with solutions or ideas, sounds like you just sat back and criticized others. Nobody like the employee who “challenges” everything.

Pops is living in the past. People get fired all the time. Layoffs are common these days. If what you say about their financials is true, that company is not long for this world.

If you are good at what you do and your resume reflects accomplishments that generate revenue, then you will be fine and likely working again soon. The recruiter will ask a lot of "Why?" questions and you can let them know that despite your strong performance, the company was having troubles and had lost direction. "My immediate supervisor and I had disagreements about the future direction of the product line and, despite the new revenue that I had generated, he decided that I no longer fit within his team vision. It is unfortunate and I miss the people that I worked with but, I respect his right to surround himself with the talent that he feels most comfortable with."

If you convey something like this with sincerity and a lack of defensiveness/bitterness, it will not matter. Your old employer will very likely not respond to any inquiries about your dismissal (common practice) and only confirm your dates of employment and titles.

How did you criticize them? To them directly? Publicly, like social media? Or, privately... like in a private email to a colleague?

Getting laid off is very different from being fired.

It will work out.

In meetings and in email.

I didn't propose solutions, you're right. But I was working on solutions that were growing and lacking resources. I agree with your feedback that I likely came off as someone only being critical. At the same time, if my critiques were wrong, you'd think I'd at least receive a rebuttal.

As a product management executive in technology let me say this...

Part of the PM discipline involves knowing how to steer things towards your vision and get people on board while maintaining good relationships with a broad array of stakeholders. Yes even ones you think are running the company into the ground. A good product manager in my experience can succeed and make positive change almost anywhere. That said, some companies just suck so perhaps it is for the best.

Good news, finding a PM job shouldn’t be too difficult right now.

Getting fired is never great, but it's happened to the best of us. Was it an amicable departure? I've been fired twice, once amicable, once not. Amicable you can usually feel good that they have your back for a reference, you can usually get over that quickly. If it was ugly, that can sometimes affect your career going forward.

Ultimately though, you are 30, you can get through this. Are you a commercial PM or was your company in government?

Yes, they are technically different. But the COVID economy has put a great number of people into the job market due to layoff, reduction of force, reorganization, elimination of position, etc. that most recruiters are not even bothering to ask about your dismissal any longer and most employers will not comment on dismissals when asked. I seen whole teams get laid off on a Monday but, one guy in the department, usually a senior manager or VP, got "fired" because the big boss wanted to flip him the bird on the way out. He still got the severance package from HR and the owner got to act like a tough guy and place blame on someone (instead of his own dumb business decisions) to salve his own ego.

Unless you were fired for cause, broke the law and were referred to the local authorities for prosecution, or faced a civil suit over your workplace behavior, the semantics don't matter. It's just a big game and you find a new job. Most right-to-work states operate like this and companies don't want any complications after you are gone. Do you also believe that getting detention in high school keeps you from getting into a good college? Or that your "permanent record" is actually a thing?

bgt29 wrote:

I didn't propose solutions, you're right. But I was working on solutions that were growing and lacking resources. I agree with your feedback that I likely came off as someone only being critical. At the same time, if my critiques were wrong, you'd think I'd at least receive a rebuttal.

Fattyatthegym is likely cut from the same cloth as these Mr. Managers who fired you. I always laugh when Mr. Managers get so butthurt about being criticized for objectively indefensible actions or performance from their subordinates. Unfortunately, such people are petty enough to fire those who dare question the authority of the Mr. Managers. Consider that a lesson learned and become a respected IC at your next employer who avoids Mr. Manager drama. Take solace that these people are likely fat (see fattyatthegym), have health problems, can't get boners, have a wife who hates and/or disrespects them, and all the toxic externalities that come from living for other people.

highhoppingworm wrote:

As a product management executive in technology let me say this...

Part of the PM discipline involves knowing how to steer things towards your vision and get people on board while maintaining good relationships with a broad array of stakeholders. Yes even ones you think are running the company into the ground. A good product manager in my experience can succeed and make positive change almost anywhere. That said, some companies just suck so perhaps it is for the best.

Good news, finding a PM job shouldn’t be too difficult right now.

This is the truth. There's no excuse for combatting with stakeholders. I definitely could have played it differently. It's a failed experiment on my part, and if I get into another PM role, I'll remember your feedback.

Hyuk hyuk hyuk wrote:

[quote]bgt29 wrote:

Fattyatthegym is likely cut from the same cloth as these Mr. Managers who fired you. I always laugh when Mr. Managers get so butthurt about being criticized for objectively indefensible actions or performance from their subordinates. Unfortunately, such people are petty enough to fire those who dare question the authority of the Mr. Managers. Consider that a lesson learned and become a respected IC at your next employer who avoids Mr. Manager drama. Take solace that these people are likely fat (see fattyatthegym), have health problems, can't get boners, have a wife who hates and/or disrespects them, and all the toxic externalities that come from living for other people.

My manager is exactly as you describe. Fat, unhealthy, and in my opinion, measurably incompetent. If I had better incentives, it's likely I would have behaved differently. The company isn't adapting to a shifting market, I have no equity, and there's no prospect for a raise. I feel like having equity makes it easier to deal with these types of people because I can at least get a piece of the growth in the future.

Commercial. We we're an old sales driven company purchased by a Private equity firm with a tech division. It's as legacy as it gets.

In 6 month you will be one of the guys under a bridge, Greg complains about.

Welcome in the club.

Have any of you tried to fire somebody in corporate America? If this was actually a large company, to get HR to sign off, either the OP would have to do something so egregious (like dropping his pants and telling the VP to suck his deek) or he was given a series of written warnings and actions plans. So OP, had many warnings did you ignore before they fired you?

Big Boss Man wrote:

Have any of you tried to fire somebody in corporate America? If this was actually a large company, to get HR to sign off, either the OP would have to do something so egregious (like dropping his pants and telling the VP to suck his deek) or he was given a series of written warnings and actions plans. So OP, had many warnings did you ignore before they fired you?

I agree! I didn't do anything egregious and I was never given a written warning or any action plans.

When I was being terminated, I was given the reasons, and I asked for proof. The HR rep on the phone said they have emails of the infractions -- not delivering on business expectation. When I asked about an appeal, the HR rep immediately left the call.

Do I have any legal case here? I'm an employee of California and my company is headquartered in Texas. I'm willing to get an attorney involved and at least fight for a severance package. Without a doubt I'm one of the highest performing employees. I feel as if my manager fired me because he was jealous of my successes (brought a new product from $0 to 100k a day in 6 months).

Anyone with legal feedback?