What's going on? HBO's Real Sports pulls feature on debate over transgender women competing in sports at last minute

Well..... wrote:

labels for all wrote:

Yes, yes hurtful and offensive. Meanwhile the trans community uses the term cis as a derogatory term to label others not like them. It is almost baffling to watch.

No, they use it for a specific reason to refer to a specific subsection, nothing derogatory about it. It's not complicated :/.

There is a type of person for whom "cis white male" is the default setting for all of humanity, so to them, those descriptors don't need to be explicitly mentioned. Calling attention to their (accurate) descriptors by referring to them as a "cis white male" just sounds like an attack. "Hey, what are you gettin' at, callin me 'cis'? I don't know how I like that. You wanna fight?"

Wait, you can't have it both ways. You are saying transgender is not genetic, but its related to a disorder like autism that IS genetic...ok erm yeah. You are instantly contradicting yourself there..

Also we define what is a mental illness, if you say being transgender or autism is a mental illness, then by that definition it is...that doesn't take away what it actually is though.

An 11-year-old child cannot buy a beer or drive a car. He or she is not developed enough to make life-altering decisions that might harm his or her health.

No of course they're not. That's why parents, doctors and health services make the decision.

Sure, now find all the ones where it's successful, and at the same time find all the people who committed suicide who didn't transition. Wonder which one is the highest....

Why is one persons desire a mental illness and not the other ? Because some arbitrary person defined it so. That may be a useful definition or not, but it's simply a category.

Do I believe that being transgender is always a natural feeling because of genetics ? I'd say yes, in so far as we can't remove genetics at all. However, it's a spectrum, and you can't remove environment from the equation either, but I believe genetics plays a role in 'most' cases.

However, even if let's say being transgender isn't genetic at all. Does it actually matter ? If environment caused it 100%, but the outcome of transitioning for example has a positive health outcome over any alternative...is that a problem and should be stopped ?

I do feel being transgender in sport is a very different thing though, and I'm not for letting any person run in a category they feel appropriate, but I appreciate it is an extremely complex issue.

help me understand . wrote:

rojo wrote:

And I'm not for cancel culture not allowing this stuff to be discussed. Scientific studies are being pulled simply because we don't like the results.

So let's focus on avoiding deadnaming when it is done to "aggressively dismiss and reject" one's new identity as that's just needlessly mean but that's not what happened here (the "" came from wikipedia).

you're not for cancel culture UNLESS it's canceling someone who disagrees with you.

Also, no, YOU do not get to define what deadnaming is.

What are you talking about? Please tell me hwat I want cancelled.

I'm all for debate on this stuff. People can disagree with me that's fine. But let's debate it. It's now gotten to the point that if you don't agree with this stuff you are automatically labelled transphobic. I am all for people living how they want to live, sleeping with whom they want to sleep. But to let trans people compete in top light pro sports is not something I'm for. There is no human right to play D1 or professional sports.

I dont want June cancelled. As if being a teen isn't hard enough, I can only imagine how hard it must be to feel that you are wrong gender. I've got great respect for the difficulty Caster Semenya has faced and how she's become a national icon.

King Tiger wrote:

Remember when bladerunner wanted to compete against able bodied athletes? It's the same thing.

yeah, and then he murdered his wife! just goes to show u with this type of person

King Tiger wrote:

You gotta love how trans people have chosen sports as their battleground.

Basically this means they already have acceptance in all other walks of life, but they gotta chose the very one thing that requires a strict definition of gender. Kind of like eating the apple in the garden of Eden. So why are they doing it?

BECAUSE THE HAVE A MASSIVE PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGE AND $$$.

Remember when bladerunner wanted to compete against able bodied athletes? It's the same thing.

You raise a good point about Oscar P. I very much thought he shouldn't be allowed to compete against able-bodied athletes. We don't have wheelchair racers race able-bodied athletes so why should a guy with springs on his legs get to do it?

I don't think it's about money really. I mean some of it is. But I think they really really want to be viewed as a 100% woman. The reality is we can call them women and what not but they will never be biologically a woman. And I'm sure that is painful for them and hard to expect.

And that's how we define sports . We used to just have one category of sports - call it the open category. But if we had just that, then only men would win. So we've added a bunch since then - women's sports, paralympics,etc. There aren't enough intersex people or we'd add that as well.

As my liberal friend who once used write speeches for HRC once said to me, "If you can't contemplate giving birth to a baby, then don't come to me asking to compete in women's sports. I'm not saying you have to be fertile but our bodies are not as good at sports as they were designed to give birth. Plus get back to me when a trans woman ever had a couple days a month where she feels like shit because she's on her period."

This is a very liberal woman but one who used to be a competitive runner. But if she said that in professional circles, she'd be fearful of losing her job. Yet she's just describing biology.

It really drives my friend nuts that women's amazing ability to give birth isn't celebrated. It's like totally ignored and even undermined.

Can't Trans people just be given a slot in the Paralympics?

Fixed.

Or is that unfair to the other competitors since their 'disability' is self-inflicted?

rojo wrote:

You raise a good point about Oscar P. I very much thought he shouldn't be allowed to compete against able-bodied athletes. We don't have wheelchair racers race able-bodied athletes so why should a guy with springs on his legs get to do it?

Actually it's kind of funny since I believe Nike was involved in designing Blade runner's blades.

Now everyone has it in their shoes and he's in jail.

rojo wrote:What scares me is censorship and mandated group think. We are experiencing McCarthyism all over again in the year 2020 but this time the group think is coming from the left.

Isn't this a little hypocritical of you when in the first post of the thread you mandate which pronouns we can use when talking about Eastwood? I have no problem using their transgender pronouns in social situations or just when referring to the person in general, but when this is a debate about whether they should be allowed to compete in women's sports, I think it's distorting the argument a bit when you're forced to use "she" to describe a biological male.

I would refer to Eastwood as "she" in most settings to be polite, but I resent anyone trying to force me to do it. In the context of this discussion over women's sports I absolutely will not refer to Eastwood as a "she" because they are not a biological woman and should have no place in women's sports. If you're going to resort to censorship if people use "he," then fine, I'll just avoid gender specific pronouns altogether. What a crazy time we're living in.

I can hear it all in your preamble: "my female friend who is liberal said this, I'm just quoting her".

rojo wrote:

As my liberal friend who once used write speeches for HRC once said to me, "If you can't contemplate giving birth to a baby, then don't come to me asking to compete in women's sports. I'm not saying you have to be fertile but our bodies are not as good at sports as they were designed to give birth. Plus get back to me when a trans woman ever had a couple days a month where she feels like sht because she's on her period."

Your friend seems to have some issues with gatekeeping what it means to be a woman as well. Can women compete after menopause? etc etc. It sounds like your friend just wants to remain in her protected class as she understands it - there isn't much of an ideological bent to her statement, it's just how she feels. She is still a member of the more powerful group (sexually female, designated by a doc at birth) that is making up the rules about whether to even allow the less powerful group (trans women) to participate.

Also, had to edit YOUR post so it wouldn't trigger the profanity filter ?

law and order. Don't like Rojo's rules? BANNED

King Tiger wrote:

Can't Trans people just be given a slot in the Paralympics?

Fixed.

Or is that unfair to the other competitors since their 'disability' is self-inflicted?

hate. speech. hate. speech. hate. speech. hate. speech.

But as long as you don't spam the boards, I'll see your username spewing hate indefinitely.

rojo wrote:

It really drives my friend nuts that women's amazing ability to give birth isn't celebrated. It's like totally ignored and even undermined.

It's such a wonderful way to celebrate it, as a passing sentiment in a larger argument about an issue you actually care about.

LRC goon wrote:

rojo wrote:

It really drives my friend nuts that women's amazing ability to give birth isn't celebrated. It's like totally ignored and even undermined.

It's such a wonderful way to celebrate it, as a passing sentiment in a larger argument about an issue you actually care about.

lol

And who appointed you as the spokesperson for all trans right people and activists?

Your black and woman argument falls flat because a black woman was always black and always a woman.

By saying trans woman, you’re saying clearly to the world that the person transitioned from being a male to a female. How this the term trans woman not offensive but referring to the trans woman’s former name offensive? It’s the same thing. Both refer to the persons former gender.

https://savewomenssports.com/

Why are you offended at the suggestion trans women should have a category in the special Olympics?

Do you discriminate against against special Olympics athletes? Do you see them as being less?

Trans women should she the inclusion of a trans gender category in the special Olympics Olympics as recognition and as a victory.

Well..... wrote:

LMW9 wrote:

+1

No, they use it for a specific reason to refer to a specific subsection, nothing derogatory about it. It's not complicated :/.

No, it is almost always used in a derogatory fashion. It just seems weird coming from a group that is so sensitive about labels.

Your black and black woman argument could work if the woman was formally white and transitioned to black.

Then she is, now, black and a woman. Or is she is trans race person?

You don’t like that logic do you?

Why are you obsessed with this topic, Robbie?

King Tiger wrote:

Can't Trans people just be given a slot in the Paralympics?

Fixed.

Or is that unfair to the other competitors since their 'disability' is self-inflicted?

Super interesting that a couple of my posts have been deleted, and I cannot post using the username "LRC goon" anymore, and this post remains.

Priorities

Protect LRC viewpoints.