I avoid that race. It’s a rough start and rough finish race. Some relief in the middle. Killed my knee doing it.
I avoid that race. It’s a rough start and rough finish race. Some relief in the middle. Killed my knee doing it.
Slartibartfast wrote:
Worth noting: Looks like you are looking at Kal-Haven on Nov 1. I’ve heard there are still some struggles with permitting, and that it isn’t a sure thing, because of the relay component (race size vis-a-vis COVID restrictions). Might be good to pay attention to their social media and have a Plan B.
Yes, that was the one. Good to know. I never register for stuff early so I will keep checking. For now, the main focus is on a solid 50 finish in January so hopefully that happens. I figure some long trail prep events would be nice if possible, but aren’t totally necessary.
GBohannon wrote:
Yes, that was the one. Good to know. I never register for stuff early so I will keep checking. For now, the main focus is on a solid 50 finish in January so hopefully that happens. I figure some long trail prep events would be nice if possible, but aren’t totally necessary.
A 50k that definitely will be happening in mid Oct:
http://www.tillersinternational.org/classes/f250Can be muddy, but not a lot of hills. I know the RD, and he keeps things low-key and fun.
GBohannon wrote:
I wake up at 4:20, run from 5 - 6:25, get breakfast and my lunch/snacks around, shower, and then wake up my wife and kids at 7:25 before leaving for work (I teach and coach XC, Track, and robotics). It’s busy for sure, but manageable. On Saturday, I run from 6-7 and on Sunday from 6-8. I also get a second run in on random days while running with the HS kids at practice.
What time do you go to bed with that kind of schedule?
'Easily' wouldn't be the word I would use. But I think if you know how to fuel for a 50 and how to take care of yourself otherwise (prevent chaffing, blisters etc... for long efforts) than yeah, probably not many other people running that kind of mileage at your average 50, maybe 1 or 2 others.
But then I am not nearly as fast so running a sub 7 50 doesn't sound easy at all.
Slow Bro wrote:
GBohannon wrote:
I wake up at 4:20, run from 5 - 6:25, get breakfast and my lunch/snacks around, shower, and then wake up my wife and kids at 7:25 before leaving for work (I teach and coach XC, Track, and robotics). It’s busy for sure, but manageable. On Saturday, I run from 6-7 and on Sunday from 6-8. I also get a second run in on random days while running with the HS kids at practice.
What time do you go to bed with that kind of schedule?
Depends. Typical day - get home from practice and robotics (or a meet) around 7:00, eat, do dishes, help with bedtime routine and play/read with 2 year-old until his bedtime (9-9:10). Grade/prep until 10-10:10, asleep by 10:20. Six hrs is probably my average on school nights.
Granted there are only 183 school nights in a year, so the other 182 days I sleep in until 5:30ish, have no grading or prep work, and still go to bed ASAP so I get closer to 8 hrs half the time.
GBohannon wrote:
ultrarunner for a long time wrote:
With a 2:25 Marathon time you will be your own enemy in that race.
Usually these trail races are a lot harder than they seem to be on paper.
50 miles is a lot further than a Marathon. More time = more things can happen.
Yes you can win this thing if you start very slow, (no a lot slower than you think right now) and keep moving when it's getting tough. Ultras is about overcoming a lot of lows during a race. There is nothing glorious about it.
Again, start very slow and keep moving and the win might be yours.
Good luck.
These were basically my thoughts. Assuming the trail is pretty easy/runnable, I figure 7:40-8:00 pace for 5 hrs should be achievable and then I can see from there? Does that sound reckless? 7:50 the whole way would be low 6:30s.
I would suggest a different approach. You would be better off going out a little too easy and still having legs left to run that last 15-20 miles. If you go out too fast and and blow up then you will slow down way more and could end up walking a lot, if not all, of the final miles to the finish. Worst case is you go out a little too easy the first 20-30 miles and are able to feel good the last 20 miles, move up easily and pass the people that went out too hard. I'm saying this based on my experience of doing a lot of 50 milers and 100 milers. I tend to go out pretty easy in Ultras and always end up passing a ton of people on the second half who are deep on the struggle bus, and rarely have anyone pass me on the second half.
Bekele will be busy in London getting a WR so you should be safe for a win if you are in 2:25 shape and you are better the longer the distance. I am just getting over a really bad period(wouldn't dream of doing 50 miles at the moment) from being run down but would reckon I was in 2:35 shape beforehand. If I was running 50 miles I would just go out at my normal easy pace of 7:20 per mile and try and pick it up over the last 10 miles or something. If I was you I would be going out at sub 7 pace and picking it up after half way
I don’t see why Michigan can’t be as technical as anything out west.
The Superior 100 mile in Minnesota has more elevation gain than Western States.
I made a bad assumption about a 50 mile race once, Hitchcock in IA. I thought they were exaggerating on their website like so many do. Learned my lesson to never assume what a course is like based on the state etc...
djfjdjdj wrote:
I don’t see why Michigan can’t be as technical as anything out west.
The Superior 100 mile in Minnesota has more elevation gain than Western States.
Technical has nothing to do with elevation gains.
Also elevation gains are not created equal. I have read postings that Rocky Raccoon 100 had plenty of elevation gain according to Strava. And then there is the altitude aspect of it.
But it looks like that the Superior 100 miler is more difficult than Western States.
Superior is both technical (rocks and roots the entire way and is 95% single track so no real easy sections) and has constant up and down. No huge climbs (only real saving grace). Death by a thousand cuts. Were it at altitude would likely be very near the top for hardest 100.
ultrarunner for a long time wrote:
It's difficult to speak about speeds.
A lot is depending on your nutrition and the aid station management. People can loose a lot of time there. Have a good plan for your nutrition. You probably eat next to nothing in a Marathon but a 50 miler is different.
So you want to run in a comfortable cruise speed. If in doubt go slower in the first 20 miles.
Definition of loose
1a: not rigidly fastened or securely attached
loose planks in a bridge
b(1): having worked partly free from attachments
a loose tooth
(2): having relative freedom of movement
lose
to experience loss: lose your keys; lose money
Not to be confused with:
loose – not tight or bound: loose clothing
and I thought I was the dumbassMF!
dumbassMF wrote:
ultrarunner for a long time wrote:
It's difficult to speak about speeds.
A lot is depending on your nutrition and the aid station management. People can loose a lot of time there. Have a good plan for your nutrition. You probably eat next to nothing in a Marathon but a 50 miler is different.
So you want to run in a comfortable cruise speed. If in doubt go slower in the first 20 miles.
Definition of loose
1a: not rigidly fastened or securely attached
loose planks in a bridge
b(1): having worked partly free from attachments
a loose tooth
(2): having relative freedom of movement
lose
to experience loss: lose your keys; lose money
Not to be confused with:
loose – not tight or bound: loose clothing
and I thought I was the dumbassMF!
Uuups, one of the few mistakes I make as a second language English speaker.
What are the languages you speak?
ultrarunner for a long time wrote:
dumbassMF wrote:
Definition of loose
1a: not rigidly fastened or securely attached
loose planks in a bridge
b(1): having worked partly free from attachments
a loose tooth
(2): having relative freedom of movement
lose
to experience loss: lose your keys; lose money
Not to be confused with:
loose – not tight or bound: loose clothing
and I thought I was the dumbassMF!
Uuups, one of the few mistakes I make as a second language English speaker.
What are the languages you speak?
My apologies. I see this mistake quite often even with nominally well educated people and it drives me nuts. I speak English and a little French.
Competing to win always depends upon who else shows up to race, and how fast/experienced they are.
If you are somewhat of an experienced runner,(which you seem to be) you should know this.
Unless you are elite/world class, it is normally not a great idea to show up atany race expecting to compete for the win.
This is especially true over a distance and on a course you have never completed before.
You should start this (and most races) at a pace that you might barely expect to be able to hold until the finish if all goes well (plan on even splits). This might be tough to do in a trail race, and over a distance you have never competed before. You may have to run totally by effort.
Try going out at 7:30 pace, or equivalent effort, no faster.
Start drinking and taking in some carbs (via drink, gel or ? ) early, within the first hour.
Expect slow down, esp after 35 miles if not sooner.
Alternative plan:
Just run with the leader and try to pass him at the finish. When he eats, you eat. Take a hydration best and fill it with stuff for emergencies like gels and lube and stuff.
trailrunnerr wrote:
Alternative plan:
Just run with the leader and try to pass him at the finish. When he eats, you eat. Take a hydration best and fill it with stuff for emergencies like gels and lube and stuff.
Obviously you are no ultrarunner. It doesn't work this way. Everybody has different needs at different times,. Just following what is good for somebody else will most likely be not good for you ( at the same time).
Ultrarunning is about getting to know YOUR body and YOUR needs at a certain point in a race.
djfjdjdj wrote:
I don’t see why Michigan can’t be as technical as anything out west.
The Superior 100 mile in Minnesota has more elevation gain than Western States.
Really all we get are roots, rocks, and mud, in various combinations. Maybe I take it for granted living here, but when I see people doing scree fields and running ridge lines, or having to deal with knee deep snow and descents into scorching valleys in the same race ... just seems like a different ball game when you are dealing with the big mountains. We’ve got lots of hills, sure, but when the local ski slope has a vertical of 160’, the topography is really working against you for anything too outrageous.
2:25 marathoner asking if he could easily win a 50 k? Sounds like a obvious question. Depends who is in the race.