I can easily run (maybe win) a 50, right?

I probably also should’ve mentioned that the longest I’ve ever run is a trail 50k that I did in May 2019. No other runs above the marathon distance but I’ve always liked/run pretty high mileage (100-120) in marathon buildups.

With a 2:25 Marathon time you will be your own enemy in that race.

Usually these trail races are a lot harder than they seem to be on paper.

50 miles is a lot further than a Marathon. More time = more things can happen.

Yes you can win this thing if you start very slow, (no a lot slower than you think right now) and keep moving when it's getting tough. Ultras is about overcoming a lot of lows during a race. There is nothing glorious about it.

Again, start very slow and keep moving and the win might be yours.

Good luck.

You can sign up and finish but I'll still finish ahead of you like I always do.

Sorry this is strictly a troll post.

But I still got you.

~another runner from michigan

You absolutely could complete it and will probably be in the top 3.

I have never run an ultra so take what I say with a grain of salt.

It would blow my mind if a runner of your caliber who has been putting in decent mileage and is pretty fit couldn’t string together 2 3:2x marathons back to back.

ultrarunner for a long time wrote:

With a 2:25 Marathon time you will be your own enemy in that race.

Usually these trail races are a lot harder than they seem to be on paper.

50 miles is a lot further than a Marathon. More time = more things can happen.

Yes you can win this thing if you start very slow, (no a lot slower than you think right now) and keep moving when it's getting tough. Ultras is about overcoming a lot of lows during a race. There is nothing glorious about it.

Again, start very slow and keep moving and the win might be yours.

Good luck.

These were basically my thoughts. Assuming the trail is pretty easy/runnable, I figure 7:40-8:00 pace for 5 hrs should be achievable and then I can see from there? Does that sound reckless? 7:50 the whole way would be low 6:30s.

GBohannon wrote:

ultrarunner for a long time wrote:

With a 2:25 Marathon time you will be your own enemy in that race.

Usually these trail races are a lot harder than they seem to be on paper.

50 miles is a lot further than a Marathon. More time = more things can happen.

Yes you can win this thing if you start very slow, (no a lot slower than you think right now) and keep moving when it's getting tough. Ultras is about overcoming a lot of lows during a race. There is nothing glorious about it.

Again, start very slow and keep moving and the win might be yours.

Good luck.

These were basically my thoughts. Assuming the trail is pretty easy/runnable, I figure 7:40-8:00 pace for 5 hrs should be achievable and then I can see from there? Does that sound reckless? 7:50 the whole way would be low 6:30s.

That sounds fine. People usually go out too fast at these races, though, so think about what you'll do if there's a group at say 6:30-7:00 pace early on.

Also, make a fueling plan and stick to it. That's where you're more likely to run into trouble, even though 50 isn't THAT long.

It's difficult to speak about speeds.

A lot is depending on your nutrition and the aid station management. People can loose a lot of time there. Have a good plan for your nutrition. You probably eat next to nothing in a Marathon but a 50 miler is different.

So you want to run in a comfortable cruise speed. If in doubt go slower in the first 20 miles.

Eat, drink, and walk often and before you feel like you need to.

Maybe. Depends on how slow you start. How good you are about taking in nutrition and fluids while running 7 hours. If you have done enough long runs to not be walking at 30 miles in. Would you run a marathon on 5k training? A majority of people could do it if they slowed down enough.

Most people start too fast and don’t eat and drink enough. That 2:20 marathon isn’t helpful if you walk the entire second half.

You can do well. I seem to transition between “injuries” in longer runs. Knee pain start, lasts for 5 miles, then I don’t notice it anymore. A rash starts, I think it is going to be my downfall, then the pain goes away for 45 minutes, then it comes back.

As with any event, the weakest link you have will be exposed. Hopefully, it will not be a show-stopper. Go hard and learn from the opportunity. Enjoy!

I’m in Michigan ... what race is this? I’ve done some time on the trail circuit and could maybe advise on the course.

ultrarunner for a long time wrote:

With a 2:25 Marathon time you will be your own enemy in that race.

Usually these trail races are a lot harder than they seem to be on paper.

50 miles is a lot further than a Marathon. More time = more things can happen.

Yes you can win this thing if you start very slow, (no a lot slower than you think right now) and keep moving when it's getting tough. Ultras is about overcoming a lot of lows during a race. There is nothing glorious about it.

Again, start very slow and keep moving and the win might be yours.

Good luck.

^^^This.

Put another way, an old saying goes "ultra trail races are littered with the bodies of 2:20-2:30 marathon types who showed up to win and set the course record".

Now back to specifics. For starters, you (OP) didn't mention how that trail 50k went last year? If it went well that's obviously a good sign, however, 50k is only a marathon with a few more miles tacked on and therefore can be run with fairly similar tactics,. Whereas, 50M is a whole new game requiring proper fueling, hydration, and the like as others have already mentioned.

Secondly, you're estimating possible pace/mile strategies without mentioning the type of terrain/trails this race is held on. Is it smooth crushed dirt "rails to trails" or technical style trails? Technical stuff can dramatically affect pacing to the point of rendering pace/mile targets almost meaningless. So you definitely want all the beta you can get on the race course itself.

If everything went exceedingly well could you pull off a win? Sure, anything's possible. But I wouldn't recommend going into it with that as a goal, or you'll likely end up your own worst enemy as suggested above.

Never assume you can run 50 miles, even if you've done it lots of times before.

Slartibart - The race is the Hungerford Games in Big Rapids. The race website mentions that it’s on “trails through the Manistee National Forest”.

Ex-D1 - The 50k went alright. I ran it 2 weeks after an ugly 2:27 (1:11-1:16) and only ran about 30 miles between the two races. For the 50k, I did “win” (fastest split of the day) but it was a team relay event so I never saw anyone else and ran mid-high 7:00s.

Anyways, I may have to shelf this 50 mile idea. The HS XC team I work with is constantly getting their schedule shifted and we now have a meet on Saturday at 4:00p. I do want to get into a 50 though.

Tentative plan for now is:

9/26 - trail marathon (I would easily have time for this distance before the meet)

11/1 - 33.5 mile trail race

1/2 - 50 mile trail race

Any input on how to train for a 50 would be welcome. I’m guessing it’s not that much like training for a fast marathon, but maybe it is?

GBohannon wrote:

Any input on how to train for a 50 would be welcome. I’m guessing it’s not that much like training for a fast marathon, but maybe it is?

The myth says that you have to train a lot of long miles for an ultra.

I would say, you can almost train exactly like you would do for a marathon.

The main difference is that you have to start with a very slow pace.

In Ultrarunning the "running part" gets less important the longer the race gets. Nutrition, weather, mental strength are the key to success.

GBohannon: Haven’t done Hungerford, but there can be enough technical stuff (For MI values of technical) in Manistee to be plenty challenging over 50 miles. Sounds like a moot point.

Worth noting: Looks like you are looking at Kal-Haven on Nov 1. I’ve heard there are still some struggles with permitting, and that it isn’t a sure thing, because of the relay component (race size vis-a-vis COVID restrictions). Might be good to pay attention to their social media and have a Plan B.

Sub 7 hours should be a cakewalk for you. But how do you find time to run 85 minutes routinely on week days with 2 young kids?

mindblown wrote:

Sub 7 hours should be a cakewalk for you. But how do you find time to run 85 minutes routinely on week days with 2 young kids?

I wake up at 4:20, run from 5 - 6:25, get breakfast and my lunch/snacks around, shower, and then wake up my wife and kids at 7:25 before leaving for work (I teach and coach XC, Track, and robotics). It’s busy for sure, but manageable. On Saturday, I run from 6-7 and on Sunday from 6-8. I also get a second run in on random days while running with the HS kids at practice.