Wear a mask or kill an economy, the choice is yours

I'm certain this is some amazing groundbreaking stuff, I bet all the people who actually do read it will enjoy it very much.

Let’s be clear that the lockdowns are the thing that are harming the economy. If people didn’t wear masks AND we didn’t decide to have lockdowns, the economy would be fine.

Leave the economy alone or kill the economy, the choice is yours (speaking to the left).

clarifying causation wrote:

Let’s be clear that the lockdowns are the thing that are harming the economy. If people didn’t wear masks AND we didn’t decide to have lockdowns, the economy would be fine.

Well obviously, but then people are going to get sick... The virus is a natural phenomena, the economy is a construct. If the economy isn't built to be resilient to the sh!t the world throws at us then what's the point of it?

joedirt wrote:

Wear a mask or kill an economy, the choice is yours

There's more to prevention than simply wearing a mask, but wearing a mask is simple and effective.

It's bizarre but not all that surprising that this has become a political hot button.

Daily reminder that surgical masks don't do anything aside from make people feel safe. N95 masks do, but it's not feasible to mandate them.

The only sure way to not spread the virus is to distance and not talk to strangers face-to-face for extended periods of time.

appleswan. wrote:

If the economy isn't built to be resilient to the sh!t the world throws at us then what's the point of it?

What did he mean by this?

The economy is quite simply a series of exchanges. After the onset of covid, commerce was restricted or shut down, so the economy suffered.

People always get sick without harming the economy. Allowing old people to die would actually help the economy. It doesn't make it right but it is a fact. Not wearing masks woukd actually help the economy.

lol. When people on letsrun have a serious discussion on "the economy"

people who claim to have the profession of "economist" don't know what they're talking about and their forecasts are wildly inaccurate. But you guys know what's going on

econ 111 wrote:

People always get sick without harming the economy. Allowing old people to die would actually help the economy. It doesn't make it right but it is a fact. Not wearing masks woukd actually help the economy.

The dead can't spend. And despite the constant right wing ageist tropes about the virus not being harmful because it mostly kills old people, people in their 70s and 80s contribute a lot to our economy. Many are important caregivers for families where both parents have to work. In many low income households, grandparents are the only thing keeping families out of poverty because they can look after children when mom and dad are at work.

And there are plenty of old people who are still critical workers in the economy. Fauci is 79. 6 of the 9 USC justices are over 65. Warren Buffett is 90. John Goodenough, the inventor of the lithium ion battery, won the Nobel Prize for chemistry in 2019 for his 2017 breakthrough on solid state batteries. Goodenough is 98 and is still working.

econ 111 wrote:

People always get sick without harming the economy. Allowing old people to die would actually help the economy. It doesn't make it right but it is a fact. Not wearing masks woukd actually help the economy.

It's mostly old people that die from most diseases. By your logic not treating old people for heart disease, cancer, alzheimers, etc. and letting them die would also help the economy.

econ 111 wrote:

People always get sick without harming the economy. Allowing old people to die would actually help the economy. It doesn't make it right but it is a fact. Not wearing masks woukd actually help the economy.

Old folks , unemployed, comorbidities die from it and no else . Trump helping the economy by culling the takers .

I remember when every one of posts promoted the concept of herd immunity. Have you given up on that so easily?

The shutdowns are far more damaging than the deaths. Sick old people die all the time and the world keeps going. There is someone younger to replace all those people you have mentioned. Part of the reason things like Medicare, social security and pensions are in dire straights is because sick old people are not dying. They are receiving a subsidy because they are receiving far more in benefits than they contributed at the expense of younger generations

Do you even believe this garbage. Move over David45, the new king is in town.

Seriously does Roy not realize old people die of a range of causes all the time. People in nursing homes dieing are not doing anywhere near the damage to the economy as millions of healthy people not going out or working. This virus to date has killed .06% of the US population. About .03% of the US population not in nursing homes, which is not even excluding people who are in end of life care like hospice. Sorry if you like to focus on big numbers but that is a drop in the bucket in a massive population and if the standard is to change our way of life every time there is a risk around that level you could easily make the case for a lockdown state indefinitely. There are definitely people pushing for a more controlled monitored population in the US and other western nations which should be extremely scary. It has been even scarier how many on the left are welcoming this Big Brother state with open arms in the name of safety.

big HONKING birds wrote:

Daily reminder that surgical masks don't do anything aside from make people feel safe. N95 masks do, but it's not feasible to mandate them.

The only sure way to not spread the virus is to distance and not talk to strangers face-to-face for extended periods of time.

No its also passed by touching some surface then your mouth or nose. That's the one area where a mask helps most.

big HONKING birds wrote:

appleswan. wrote:

If the economy isn't built to be resilient to the sh!t the world throws at us then what's the point of it?

What did he mean by this?

The economy is quite simply a series of exchanges. After the onset of covid, commerce was restricted or shut down, so the economy suffered.

It's clearly affected by human behavior, world events and political decisions. The idea that the economy operates like a physical law is false.

Heard mentality bro wrote:

I remember when every one of your posts promoted the concept of herd immunity. Have you given up on that so easily?

Not at all, I just accept the fact that about half of our country is ruled by democratic governors that are fools (look at New York, where they actually have herd immunity, and still refuse to reopen schools). In an ideal world without 24/7/365 news cycle, the virus would have run its course months ago and we would be back to normal. The old and weak would have died and the strong would have survived (two thirds of those that have died from this would likely have succumbed to their comorbidities at this point regardless of COVID).

I fear the economic ramifications more than I fear the virus, as the economic ramifications lead to the deaths of despair, loss of medical benefits, etc. that are far wider reaching and far more impactful in terms of life loss. Many of the people losing jobs, overdosing, etc. are younger people with younger kids that rely on that individual to provide income, benefits, etc. Most of the old people dying are mostly drawing benefits and not contributing much in the way of support to others (in fact many of their dependents are more likely to profit off of their loss if they are dying before their retirement funds run out).

Herd immunity (either through exposure to the wild virus or vaccine) is ultimately the only end to this epidemic (the New Zealand approach does not work in the larger world because the rest of the world does not have the climate or ability to control transportation that New Zealand has). In order to achieve herd immunity about .1-.2% of a population has to die (in the US, that would represent 330k-660k people). Additionally, the degree of damage that New Zealand has inflicted on their economy is not sustainable as either pockets of the virus will continue to pop up or they will have to continue to shut their boders and close the large portion of their economy that is dependent on tourism until they have a vaccine. Given that they are in a collective with non-contributing countries on a vaccine, their economy will not emerge from the doldrums for another year if they do not have the stomach to accept the fact that a small percentage of their older, sicker populace will die from this.

In my town, life has been fairly normal since about June (restaurants open, in-person education, businesses open, etc.). We have had a small number of COVID deaths. We have had three times as many excess overdose deaths and two times as many excess at home cardiac arrests from people not seeking care due to COVID fears during the peak lockdown months. In my town we had 5 times the number of excess deaths from those factors than we have had from COVID. And we are not alone in that stat: