Yeah, but remember that Manangoi started out as a 400m runner and has a great kick. See for example his finish in the 2015 world champs- lightning fast! If Jakob beats Cheruyiot it will probably be by creating a gap before the homestraight.
Yeah, but remember that Manangoi started out as a 400m runner and has a great kick. See for example his finish in the 2015 world champs- lightning fast! If Jakob beats Cheruyiot it will probably be by creating a gap before the homestraight.
runderun wrote:
My takeaway was that he was second best again. Is he just a poor tactician or does he lack something that the best-of-the-best have? He's still young but it's not like he lacks experience. Maybe he needs a Salazar figure to get him to that championship winning level
Yeah, like Salazar really taught Rupp how to win the big one. A coach doesn't teach you how to be the best in the world. God/your parents gives you that talent. Now I guess a coach or pharmacist could give you the "off the track tactics" you need to be the best illegally.
The dude has been winning 1500s all summer long and you think he's bad at tactics? His tactics were impeccable. Sit in third until just before the bell, take the lead and try to hold them off. He's now #2 all time in Europe at 1500 and 3000 but you are right, let's be negative.
As I said on the post-race podcast for subscribers, my takeaway is that he's got to be depressed.
1) He's not even the best guy named Jakob/Jacob in the world.
2) He's not even the best 19 year old in the world and he just got beat on the track by someone officially younger than him probably for the first time in his life.
3) He turns 20 on Saturday and probably is wondering if e's on the backside of his career.
ManangoiIsQuick wrote:
Yeah, but remember that Manangoi started out as a 400m runner and has a great kick. See for example his finish in the 2015 world champs- lightning fast! If Jakob beats Cheruyiot it will probably be by creating a gap before the homestraight.
400m speed is irrelevant when the race is hard from gun to tape. If Cheruiyot takes it out hard and runs 3:29, the only way to beat him is run 3:29 or faster. Finishing speed is irrelevant and the "kick," if you can call it that, is just whoever has more energy left at the end.
tell all the guys in the 3:50 rio race
Even if we take Kiplimo's age at face value, he ran 7:43/13:13 in 2017. Ingebrigtsen's SB was only 8:00/13:35 in 2017. So Ingebrigtsen is still closing the gap and is "younger" in terms of development.
rojo wrote:
The dude has been winning 1500s all summer long and you think he's bad at tactics?
He won two 1500s this summer. Two.
To the OP, I thought it was in line with what his other times show he is capable of but would've expected a 1500/5000m guy to sit and outkick the 5000m/10000m guy. Disappointing loss outweighs the expected time.
stat guy 3 wrote:
Even if we take Kiplimo's age at face value, he ran 7:43/13:13 in 2017. Ingebrigtsen's SB was only 8:00/13:35 in 2017. So Ingebrigtsen is still closing the gap and is "younger" in terms of development.
You can make that argument OR you can say that the last time they raced Jakob beat Jacob and now Jacob has turned the tables on Jakob and therefore Jacob is on the ascendance even more than Jakob. Or you start referring to them as C and K for short.
Bad Wigins wrote:
If he had enough grit to actually WIN a race, it would have been 7:26.
Unless Kiplimo retires or peaks, Jakob is gonna be 2nd best his entire career at every distance he runs.
What an enormous amount of complete nonsense you're going to post again and again.
I'm always wondering if that's just what you want or if you are reelly that dumb.
rojo wrote:
2) He's not even the best 19 year old in the world and he just got beat on the track by someone officially younger than him probably for the first time in his life.
He lost to George Manangoi at the 2018 World U20 championships.
I would think that someone who constantly berates commentators would be careful to be accurate themselves.
Why would you assume Kiplimo is more developed, Jakob been competing since he was around 14 and so has Kiplimo. Also kiplimo's 2019 season was ruined by an injury.
Hardloper wrote:
Jakob looked more interested in running a fast time than winning, which is perfectly valid. If he really just wanted to win he could have started his kick later and it may have been a different race.
Nope.
Doesn't work that way.
Jakob is as well trained and as strong and fast as he has ever been. He's perhaps the fittest mid d runner ever.
Certainly has the fastest 1500 time versus his corresponding slow 400 & 800 times when compared to all faster or even most slower world class 1500 runners.
He's an incredibly gifted and well trained athlete but he simply does not have God given speed. Period.
Oh, and those going on about " he just needs to train for speed" are clueless. .... Speed is the least trainable factor for any athlete, but especially true for strength based mid d runners. Mytochondria is sacred and
Gert can keep prescribing 20 second hill sprints to avoid this but Jakob isn't going to get faster doing just that and he won't get faster without impairing his strength.
rojo wrote:
runderun wrote:
My takeaway was that he was second best again. Is he just a poor tactician or does he lack something that the best-of-the-best have? He's still young but it's not like he lacks experience. Maybe he needs a Salazar figure to get him to that championship winning level
Yeah, like Salazar really taught Rupp how to win the big one. A coach doesn't teach you how to be the best in the world. God/your parents gives you that talent. Now I guess a coach or pharmacist could give you the "off the track tactics" you need to be the best illegally.
The dude has been winning 1500s all summer long and you think he's bad at tactics? His tactics were impeccable. Sit in third until just before the bell, take the lead and try to hold them off. He's now #2 all time in Europe at 1500 and 3000 but you are right, let's be negative.
As I said on the post-race podcast for subscribers, my takeaway is that he's got to be depressed.
1) He's not even the best guy named Jakob/Jacob in the world.
2) He's not even the best 19 year old in the world and he just got beat on the track by someone officially younger than him probably for the first time in his life.
3) He turns 20 on Saturday and probably is wondering if e's on the backside of his career.
First, I think you wanted to say #1 in Europe in the 1500, and unofficially #1 in Europe in the 3000. We know the history of Mouhrit.
Also,
1) Jacob would be back 5 seconds of Jakob in the 1500
2) See #1, plus the other Jacob is 32
3) Jakob is on top of the world
This is how good Cheptegei and Kiplimo were already in 2019 at World XC on a hugely tough course where they ran away from Kamworor and Jakob could only take 12th in the Junior race.
Since then Cheptegei's run 12:35, Kiplimo 12:48 tactical and 7:26.64, and Kamworor WR 58:01 half, while in the junior race you had Jakob in 12th in 24:37 way behind Mengesha in 23:52 but has now run 3:28.6/7:27.
Seniors:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V5Eugvn5Wo
Juniors:
stat guy 3 wrote:
ManangoiIsQuick wrote:
Yeah, but remember that Manangoi started out as a 400m runner and has a great kick. See for example his finish in the 2015 world champs- lightning fast! If Jakob beats Cheruyiot it will probably be by creating a gap before the homestraight.
400m speed is irrelevant when the race is hard from gun to tape. If Cheruiyot takes it out hard and runs 3:29, the only way to beat him is run 3:29 or faster. Finishing speed is irrelevant and the "kick," if you can call it that, is just whoever has more energy left at the end.
....And what if Cheruiyot takes it out in 52 then drops to 60 but still goes 3:28??
Jakob can even split all he wants, if the faster and fitter (genetically) Cheruiyot can vary his splits by up to 8 seconds leading up to the bell lap and still run 3:28 then no way he is losing to Jakob.
Rojo was tongue in cheek about #3.
Also Jacob would NOT be 5 seconds behind Jakob in an 1500m race. You cannot have seen that 3000m race and believe that. Also I am not sure why you want to lie about Jacob’s age. I do not know his age but why are you lying about it?
You overlook not only that finishing speed is trainable and has been trained in many runners from Billy Mills (so proud when he could run 200s in 26-27, I think, in training, which he knew he needed to be able to win in Tokyo) to Galen Rupp, and that Jakob's training for speed is not close to as much as most other top middle distance runners, but more generally that when you are strong enough to handle a given pace easily, you have a higher percentage of your maximum 200/400m speed available for the finish. When he can run 1:43-44 for the 800m, he will have the necessary finishing speed, assuming that he continues to add aerobic strength, as almost all athletes do over a ten year period from the beginning of serious training.
Great time by a very good young runner.
I'd say his 3'28 is just fractions better a performance than the 7:27. An incredible performance nonetheless. If his strength is up to snuff, I'd guess somewhere in the 12:46-12:48 range for 5000 optimally right now. If he is still a bit underdeveloped on the aerobic side, maybe something like 12:50-12:52
jkhdsfla'd wrote:
I'd say his 3'28 is just fractions better a performance than the 7:27. An incredible performance nonetheless. If his strength is up to snuff, I'd guess somewhere in the 12:46-12:48 range for 5000 optimally right now. If he is still a bit underdeveloped on the aerobic side, maybe something like 12:50-12:52
Imagine an NCAA freshman being in 3'28/7'27/12'50 shape
A fantastic run by the top 3. In this sort of race they’re running for times, which were awesome, and I’m sure they’re all very happy, they certainly should be. Medals at stake, Jakob may play a more tactical game. And win.