Tribute to 02:20 Marathon

John MacEnroe wrote:

for the marathon wrote:

The wind makes it very difficult to predict. As previously discussed, my impression is that your weakness at the moment is your stamina. Personally I would be surprised if you break 35 minutes, and I think sub 36:30 or something like that would be a very solid effort for you at this point, maybe even slower, although your training is unusual, so it is difficult to say.

A solo 10km is hard, although some seem to manage it. Thus I'd certainly edge for the slower end of whatever you feel is a reasonable starting pace.

I agree, his training is very unusual.

Shouldn't he and his coach set a goal?

What does Jan say about this, Canefis?

He said better to do on treadmill with fixed pace.

I do not want to make on treadmill in order to do not have any speculation regarding results...

John MacEnroe wrote:

Canefis wrote:

03:23.8min real time at 0.48% gradient with wind 27-32km/h. Something like this

Half facing the wind, half with it behind?

Yes.

I don’t understand setting such a slow time goal based off your LT intervals and 20x400m sessions.

SouthernFriedRealist wrote:

I don’t understand setting such a slow time goal based off your LT intervals and 20x400m sessions.

My garmin shows 32:00, runalyze shows 33:28. Most of the people here says that 10K is required good stamina and based on my zero 10K experience it will be very difficult to shoot directly to 31-33 range without pacers or race. Plus, most of the people here said, that my workouts is too fast and not corresponding to proper pace (5K --- 1.6-3K, LT --- 7-12K). But what is strange during my workout that my HR, it is soo low....

For example, last 10x1000 @03:24 by pulse 158 it looks like marathon effort... but by muscles effort is not... very strange...

My runs since 10.01.2021 on hilly courses gave me very much strength in legs compare to Spain on flat terrain.

Muscles are weak and not correlating with aerobic base... 8-12 week with hills, strides, longer tempo workouts should fix it. I hope, that new coach will figured it out and fix this issue in order to finish maybe wrong evaluation of my shape from strange data from strange workouts....

I suspect, that my threshold level is low (+-85-87% HRmax) due to muscles weakness and short history as a runner.

you have been doing up to ten hours per week, sometimes much more - how on earth can your stamina be poor?

I would like to say; take it easy, set a simple goal, negative split it. but what have you got to lose?

Back to sea soon, no other goals.

Go for it.

If you make it you will feel great and inspired every day at sea.

if you dont, you will know why, you will know how you feel, you will know how to improve, and you will have 'died' a VIKING.

I don't mean this in a rude way, but you've logged hundreds of miles, ranging from 400s to long runs, surely you must have a gut feel for what you can aim for? You seem to worry the small details (e.g. converting 0.48 % gradient to 0 % gradient type stuff), but really, it's just running dude. Identify a 30 second range you feel fairly confident of, of making the lower end and hoping for a good day to make the top end (e.g. 33:00 to 33:30) and go out steady according to that.

This is your first time trial more than 5k if I remember correct, so lots to learn and nobody is going to literally die if you run ten milliseconds off of some arbitrary time your Garmin or the peanut gallery on LRC sets.

Canefis wrote:

So, better to start slowly, let say, at pace 03:30 (35min=10K) run 5K and then to try kick harder?

When I did this on my 5K TT, you called me a cheater.

I suggest you run your TT with negative split. Start at 3:30 / km and run 5 k at that pace ( 17:30 at 5 k) and then speed up gradually last 5 k. Good luck!

- COACH J.S -

-Swedish middle/ longdistance online running coach- (

www.coachjs.se

)

I dont know pupil and not wearing... I would be pretty worried running a 10k TT knowing that I have not run more than 1k at anything faster than like 6:50ish pace in my entire training block. Maybe physiologically this is an insignificant point but it would leave me feeling pretty cautious going out and questioning my endurance to hold something resembling CV pace for 30+ minutes.

The Wizard J.S wrote:

I suggest you run your TT with negative split. Start at 3:30 / km and run 5 k at that pace ( 17:30 at 5 k) and then speed up gradually last 5 k. Good luck!

- COACH J.S -

-Swedish middle/ longdistance online running coach- (site full of lies)

So Canefis stared this thread 4 months ago with:

Canefis wrote:

186cm

78kg

HRmax=192

HRrest=40

Threshold:168-173

Base period (without Coach JS), OUTDOOR (1800km per 5months), INDOOR (800km per 2months)

only easy runs at 65-70% HRmax, no any workouts, few 3K, 5K TT.

Started VDOT=46

Ended VDOT=64

Final: 3km TT indoor =09:25, avg HR=176

Building period (with Coach JS), INDOOR (400km per 1months),

Started VDOT=64

Current VDOT= approx 66-68...(based on LT pace, 5k pace and easy pace on treadmill) in progress, on the land will be adjusted accordingly...

"Started VDOT = 64"

That's worth 33:27 by Daniels' tables.

And you want him to go out at 35:00 pace. Why? Are you expecting him to go 17:30+16:00?

Or maybe you know your system is crap and he has gotten worse since training with you?

So, after 4 months dancan training

At your start 4 months ago

1 month ago a 15min 5k shape

How could your Stamina be poor, js have told us so many times you are capable of running a 15m 5k and a 2:24 marathon?

js don't think it nessesary to do any TT, and left Canefis "in the dark" on how it actually feels to run the distance ( a 15:xx 5k, a 31:xx 10k or the 1:09:xx HM)

The Wizard J.S wrote:

I suggest you run your TT with negative split. Start at 3:30 / km and run 5 k at that pace ( 17:30 at 5 k) and then speed up gradually last 5 k. Good luck!

- COACH J.S -

Nice fake handle with that dot between the J and S.

Could be you jan, could be another person

jiggymeister wrote:

Canefis wrote:

So, better to start slowly, let say, at pace 03:30 (35min=10K) run 5K and then to try kick harder?

When I did this on my 5K TT, you called me a cheater.

Bingo, so that is why I rise question about TT pace... coach said 03:30, if so, what a hell I ran 10x1000 @03:23???- LT pace??? Looking stupid, yes??

Anyone else hear the curb your enthusiasm theme tune play whenever they reach the last post in this thread?

It’s February in a few days. Is the marathon going ahead?

JS, why would you have your athlete run slower than LT pace for a 10k and MUCH slower than his 5k pace?

Every time I think you can’t be any more clueless, you prove me wrong!

Canefis wrote:

But what is strange during my workout that my HR, it is soo low....

For example, last 10x1000 @03:24 by pulse 158 it looks like marathon effort... but by muscles effort is not... very strange...

Your heart rate is low because you stop every 3 minutes (or 70 seconds on the 400s) and let your heart rate drop back down to 120. On your 1000s, right when your heart rate gets near LT you stop and let it fall back down. These workouts of JS are purely meant to make the pace feel easier through repetition, however, they are about the easiest workouts to do.

Canefis wrote:

jiggymeister wrote:

When I did this on my 5K TT, you called me a cheater.

Bingo, so that is why I rise question about TT pace... coach said 03:30, if so, what a hell I ran 10x1000 @03:23???- LT pace??? Looking stupid, yes??

Before JS, you started out with a 3k TT 9:25 (Vdot 63 -> 10k 33:54)

Than began majic training and you said "current Vdot 66-68" (± 3k 08:58-5k 15:35-10k 32:25)

After 4 months of training js tells you to go 03:30 pace for 10k?

With that magic dancan training?

Maybe if you did a few TT as suggested here by several people, you wouldn't be second guessing what kind of shape your in.

And in a few weeks time your (were) supposed to run a marathon in 2:24 (your ability according to js)

What are you two up to?