What's the actual evidence of racism in Floyd or Blake shootings?

Armstronglivs wrote:

Where is it? wrote:

Terrorism is a pretty concrete, horrible thing: committing acts of random mass murder. Trapping people in nightclubs and murdering them all. Killing people in church. Setting bombs off at marathon finish lines. Hijacking planes and flying them into office buildings.

The racism that the wokes talk about is literally crying about stuff from 50-400 years ago and little whiny modern-day microaggressions.

Not exactly the same thing.

There are quite a few dead black people, killed by police officers, who might have disagreed with you about that.

Statistically, not true. Though horrible when it occasionally happens, still not as prevalent as the MSM would like to project.

Where is it? wrote:

It's systemic bro wrote:

George Floyd's death (which most people agree should have been avoided regardless of race) it shines a light on the bigger issues and becomes a rallying point.

But even Floyd's death is looking to less and less attributable to police action as the evidence comes out. He was resisting arrest, cop used an approved restraint, Floyd complained he couldn't breathe well before being restrained, had no indication of asphyxiation as a cause of death, had an OD-level of fentanyl in his system, and serious heart problems, and the cops had called an ambulance for him.

None of that, to me, adds up to "murdered by police."

If this had happened to my junky brother (which is very possible, knowing him), I wouldn't blame the cops at all.

A few thoughts:

1. George Floyd was initially arrested for using a counterfeit $20 bill, an incredibly minor crime. Eric Garner (remembered for repeating "I can't breathe" as he was being killed by police officers) was arrested for selling loose cigarettes. (Also, consider: is it possible that the reason selling loose cigarettes is a crime in the first place is that it's more often done in the inner city, i.e., by Black people?) Meanwhile, the list of white mass murderers who have been simply arrested after their atrocities is long and well-known. If we can't see that there is a perceived difference between the dangers posed by a Black man using a bum bill or selling loosies and a White mass-murderer wielding weapons of war, we have a real problem.

2. Just because a restraint is "approved" doesn't mean that it's safe or that you're not a murderer if you kill the person you're restraining.

3. I had not heard that Floyd was having trouble breathing before being knelt on. The fact that he was already struggling to breathe (from panic or fear, from chemical intake, from whatever) suggests that he also could not have been resisting as actively as he is being said to and that kneeling on his neck was both unnecessary and particularly cruel.

4. Finally, the idea that a man who can be seen being forcefully knelt on by three other grown adults must have died from other conditions is deeply scary. You're essentially saying that people like Floyd--with heart conditions and possible drug issues--and your brother cannot truly ever be said to be murdered; they can only die from their own health issues and life-mistakes. In other words, there is a whole segment of the population who, if you strangle them, it's okay--they were already mostly dead already or were on their way to being dead because of their own physical or moral deficiencies, so it's not murder. Although you seem okay with your brother being dispatched this way, that sort of attitude is much more commonly directed towards Black lives, which are always--in these stories--already compromised, so the cops can't be said to be responsible.

HLq wrote:

I am as against society emotionally and irrationally overreacting to racism based on sensationalist media coverage as I am against society emotionally and irrationally overreacting to terrorism based on sensationalist media coverage.

How does one emotionally or irrationally overreact the terrorism? I'm all for debate, but quite frankly this is most bizarre take I've seen on this forum.......and that's saying a lot.

fasciz wrote:

If this had happened to my junky brother (which is very possible, knowing him), I wouldn't blame the cops at all.

Calling you out as a liar. NOBODY who has a junky family member dismisses their possible death as easily as you just did. There is a lot of emotion involved in a situation like that. So you are either soulless or a liar. If your brother, high as a kite on a cocktail of drugs, is resisting enough that it forces police to do something and they do what they did to George Floyd you wouldn't blame the police? Right...

It wasn’t me that typed that.

CircusClowns wrote:

fasciz wrote:

If this had happened to my junky brother (which is very possible, knowing him), I wouldn't blame the cops at all.

Calling you out as a liar. NOBODY who has a junky family member dismisses their possible death as easily as you just did. There is a lot of emotion involved in a situation like that. So you are either soulless or a liar. If your brother, high as a kite on a cocktail of drugs, is resisting enough that it forces police to do something and they do what they did to George Floyd you wouldn't blame the police? Right...

I wouldn't blame police if they forcefully restrained him because he wouldn't comply and then he OD'd or had a heart attack or whatever. Nope, not one bit. And he's been arrested many times, so I have plenty of experience dealing with this in real life.

It remains somewhat unclear what prompted the officers to kneel on Floyd after he requested to lay on the ground. I don't believe this portion of the body cam footage has been released. The best I can tell, it was to prevent him from getting up and fighting again (as he had done previous when they tried to put him in the car) while waiting for the ambulance they called to arrive. Regardless, kneeling on someone would hardly constitute lethal force in 99.999% of circumstances. Remember, Floyd showed zero evidence of asphyxiation or trauma to the throat.

Where is it? wrote:

Any reason at all to think the outcomes would have been different if these guys weren't black?

None that I can see.

Have you looked at everything out there on implicit bias? White folks/white cops are more likely to act upon stereotypes & their nerves when coming across non-white folks. It impacts the way they react & handle various situations.

Truly ask yourself if you'd rather be white/black in a cop interaction. If you're really gonna hold that line, good on you but usually this argument derails racists (not you, just as an example) because deep down they know they're better off being white when dealing with police.

I would say the evidence is in the organic consensus among "black" people, not just in the United States but worldwide. This is happening without any single leader or news medium. The iconic imagery of incidents like what happened with George Floyd were felt on a visceral level by almost the entire population of "black" people. That speaks for itself.

Where is it? wrote:

It's systemic bro wrote:

George Floyd's death (which most people agree should have been avoided regardless of race) it shines a light on the bigger issues and becomes a rallying point.

But even Floyd's death is looking to less and less attributable to police action as the evidence comes out. He was resisting arrest, cop used an approved restraint, Floyd complained he couldn't breathe well before being restrained, had no indication of asphyxiation as a cause of death, had an OD-level of fentanyl in his system, and serious heart problems, and the cops had called an ambulance for him.

None of that, to me, adds up to "murdered by police."

If this had happened to my junky brother (which is very possible, knowing him), I wouldn't blame the cops at all.

It doesn't look like "murdered by the police " to you because you have distorted and misstated the facts. A knee for 9 minutes on his neck is not "an approved restraint" - and hasn't been raised as a likely defence. The evidence and the pathology findings are of homicide. Drugs have not been found to have contributed to his death. It also doesn't fit to argue a drug overdose if it is claimed it took 4 police officers to subdue him. Nor was he resisting arrest when handcuffed with Chauvin's knee on his neck. There are always those who will find an excuse for police brutality.

antifas wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

There are quite a few dead black people, killed by police officers, who might have disagreed with you about that.

Statistically, not true. Though horrible when it occasionally happens, still not as prevalent as the MSM would like to project.

Statistically, they are dead. The statistics also show that black Americans are 2-3 times more likely to be victims of police violence than whites.

Thousands of black American are protesting against police brutality because they say many of them have had bad experiences with the police.

BS. Two autopsies have ruled homicide as a result of asphyxiation.

Floyd had been arrested a few weeks before and had swallowed the drugs (probably oxy based) he was holding. Which may explain the OD levels of Fent in his system and his weird behavior on the day he died.

From the defense's motion to introduce additional evidence. This evidence will come in. It shows Floyd's "m.o." when caught in situations like this, and explains how he OD'ed.

"1. The facts and circumstances of MP 2019-127538 from May 6, 2019. At that time Mr.

George Floyd was engaged in the sale and possession of large quantities of controlled

substances. When approached by police he placed drugs in his mouth in an attempt to avoid

arrest, and swallowed them. When interacting with police he engaged in diversionary

behavior such as crying and acted irrationally. An ambulance was called to transport Mr.

Floyd to the hospital.

2. The facts and circumstances of Mr. Floyd’s May 6, 2019 medical intervention at

Hennepin County Medical Center for “accidental drug ingestion.” At which time Mr. Floyd

disclosed that he “snorts oxycodone daily” , was hypertensive and not taking medications,

took street drugs prior to admission (PTA) and while under arrest was tearful – because he

was accused of selling drugs by the police and has been abusing opiates for the last year

and a half."

I can't find the media reporting this anywhere - you have to monitor the docket to see what the media cherry picks for public broadcast, and what it decides not to report.

Further, if there was "zero evidence of asphyxiation" Chauvin and the other officers would not be facing homicide charges.

Correction - not a few weeks before - he was arrested a year before in May 2019, when he ingested the drugs. Floyd was nuts, that's for sure.

If it hasn't been reported anywhere it hasn't been presented by anyone in the case as fact. It remains your concoction.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Further, if there was "zero evidence of asphyxiation" Chauvin and the other officers would not be facing homicide charges.

That isn't exactly correct. If you actually had ever been in the US, or understood the legal system at all, you'd know why.

Armstronglivs wrote:

antifas wrote:

Statistically, not true. Though horrible when it occasionally happens, still not as prevalent as the MSM would like to project.

Statistically, they are dead. The statistics also show that black Americans are 2-3 times more likely to be victims of police violence than whites.

Thousands of black American are protesting against police brutality because they say many of them have had bad experiences with the police.

Solely because they are black. Has nothing to do with crime statistics and the way many of them have been failed by their families and the democratic party? By the way, my black friends don't like nor care for white elitists liberals to speak for them. Try really listening to them.

Where is it? wrote:

Any reason at all to think the outcomes would have been different if these guys weren't black?

None that I can see.

It’s understandable you can’t see it. Let’s ask Harvard to run a study to see what they find: