Any reason at all to think the outcomes would have been different if these guys weren't black?
None that I can see.
Any reason at all to think the outcomes would have been different if these guys weren't black?
None that I can see.
Police are more gentile with blacks.<
Racism is just presumed, almost irrebuttably, in these instances. If you even question it like you did, much less try to rebut it, you will usually (1) be called a racist, or (2) be told the racism is "systematic" and as such, you just aren't smart enough or "woke" enough to see it or understand it.
But yeah, it doesn't add up in any of these high profile instances that I'm aware of, and in some it's almost absurd to think the cops' decisions were motivated by race.
It's about feelings not facts
It's actually really sad. I think we do have a problem with lack of police accountability, and we absolutely should pursue reforms along the lines of ending qualified immunity, ending no-knock warrants, eliminating or at least reducing the power of police unions, improving police training and standards (which would require more funding, not less), etc. But none of these things have anything to do with race. Framing the problem as a racism problem means there is no chance we will actually accomplish any of these badly needed police reforms.
Even if racism was the problem, the idea that we're going to fix it by "ending racism" is as laughably naive as the idea that we're going to "end murder" or "end rape" etc. You don't just end racism. You mitigate it, you discourage it, and you figure out how to live your life without requiring the world around you to be perfect.
BLM types do not think in terms of evidence, but in terms of narratives and social approval.
The real truth is the SJW's aren't near woke enough to care about drug users OD'ing.
HLq wrote:
Even if racism was the problem, the idea that we're going to fix it by "ending racism" is as laughably naive as the idea that we're going to "end murder" or "end rape" etc. You don't just end racism. You mitigate it, you discourage it, and you figure out how to live your life without requiring the world around you to be perfect.
No one in the black community I know of has the illogical idea of “just end(ing) racism”...that’s a whitewashed view. The focus in the black community is becoming a society that is as much anti-racist as it is anti-terrorist, but it’s impossible to do so if no truth is spoken about how deeply this country was built on the divisions and oppression due to an individuals gender, status, AND RACE. It also becomes impossible when ppl don’t know all that racism encompasses and impacts. For example, most people will not be able to see the racism within slavery when comparing those enslaved vs indentured servants. They will see it not as race issue rather as a class issue. They will point to outliers or outright falsehoods as most relevant and comfy, such as, there being black indenture servants (not many), or the first slave owner being black (not true btw).
I will end with this the majority of blacks could care two damns less about someone’s racist heart over developing consequences for racist actions (intentional or not). These actions should include being a part of racist groups or ideology outside ones profession. Many in this country should have bent backwards to get KKK members out of law enforcement when the FBI warned of their infiltration!! No one bats an eye and here we are with ppl saying “how do we know if the cop was motivated by race” whelp those odds increased when warnings were ignored. Now let the FBI mention it being terrorist inspired individuals from the “accepted” terrorist group infiltrating LEAs. Ppls outcry would be loud and action swift. There would be background checks so extensive it would include investigations on their future thoughts!! And ppl would welcome it as being “our” problem to solve...while racism continues to be spoken on this board as if it’s only a black people problem!!
2,600 - you understand nothing.
I don’t think anyone thinks we can end racism, murder or rape.
But we should try. Complex I know.
The focus in the black community is becoming a society that is as much anti-racist as it is anti-terrorist
Terrorism is a pretty concrete, horrible thing: committing acts of random mass murder. Trapping people in nightclubs and murdering them all. Killing people in church. Setting bombs off at marathon finish lines. Hijacking planes and flying them into office buildings.
The racism that the wokes talk about is literally crying about stuff from 50-400 years ago and little whiny modern-day microaggressions.
Not exactly the same thing.
Yikes! You're not going to convince me with that! Society's reaction to terrorism is almost entirely a completely irrational overreaction. I am as against society emotionally and irrationally overreacting to racism based on sensationalist media coverage as I am against society emotionally and irrationally overreacting to terrorism based on sensationalist media coverage.
You're right to point out there is a parallel here, but these are both bad things, not good things. It's bad that after 9/11 people irrationally feared that their lives were in more danger from terrorist attacks and thus overreacted with things like the patriot act and mass government surveillance and spying on its own citizens and with some level of xenophobia/islamophobia. Just like it's bad that black people have the completely irrational and unsubstantiated belief that they are at significant risk of being shot by a cop for no reason. It's simply not true. If the media covered people struck by lightning as much as they covered black people being shot by cops, you'd be absolutely terrified of being struck by lightning out of a clear blue sky. For every black person shot by cops, the cops shoot two white people. But there's no national media coverage of it, and so white people aren't twice as terrified that the cops will shoot them for no reason.
There's no shortage of people speaking the truth or "their truth" about this. How's that working out? I think it's clear from the evidence that far from being the solution to our problems, this creates more division and anger. Yes, we can all agree slavery bad, racism bad, and this country did bad things in the past (just like every other country in the world, by the way). But what do you expect to accomplish by emphasizing just how deeply bad the past was? It doesn't really matter how bad the past was. What matters is how things are now.
WTF are you even talking about? It sounds like you found one mentally-ill white supremacist who was spouting some nonsense and decided that crazy person represents everyone. You are delusional. Everyone* (meaning the 99.9999% of people who aren't mentally-ill white supremacists) knows that slavery (at least as it existed in the US) was deeply intertwined with racism and vice-versa. There is no rational person disputing this. And as I already said before, it doesn't even matter what happened in the past. It doesn't matter whether the "first slave owner" was black or not (which they almost certainly were considering that humans supposedly first evolved in Africa and slavery has been around as long as humans have). But it doesn't matter. It has no relevance whatsoever to life today. If you think that spreading the truth about whether the first slave owner was black or not has anything to do with fixing any perceived problems in today's world, then you are very delusional.
Brad Higgins wrote:
I don’t think anyone thinks we can end racism, murder or rape.
But we should try. Complex I know.
If that's not what people really mean, then they should say what they really mean. If people say something that is different than what they mean, then they shouldn't be surprised when people think they mean what they said.
And I don't think you speak for everyone, so I can't simply take your word for it that everyone else means what you say they mean.
George Floyd wasn't shot, moran.
the last sane human wrote:
BLM types do not think in terms of evidence, but in terms of narratives and social approval.
And white supremacists don't?
Systemic racism is a compilation of prejudices. Statistically African Americans are more likely to be stopped, pulled over, arrested, treated forcefully, etc. The specific examples you mentioned didn't occur in a vacuum but rather against this broader background. When this culminates in events such as George Floyd's death (which most people agree should have been avoided regardless of race) it shines a light on the bigger issues and becomes a rallying point.
Not here to bash your implied opinion but if you're actually confused this may clear up why people may think differently than you.
Where is it? wrote:
The focus in the black community is becoming a society that is as much anti-racist as it is anti-terrorist
Terrorism is a pretty concrete, horrible thing: committing acts of random mass murder. Trapping people in nightclubs and murdering them all. Killing people in church. Setting bombs off at marathon finish lines. Hijacking planes and flying them into office buildings.
The racism that the wokes talk about is literally crying about stuff from 50-400 years ago and little whiny modern-day microaggressions.
Not exactly the same thing.
There are quite a few dead black people, killed by police officers, who might have disagreed with you about that.
Where is it? wrote:
The focus in the black community is becoming a society that is as much anti-racist as it is anti-terrorist
Terrorism is a pretty concrete, horrible thing: committing acts of random mass murder. Trapping people in nightclubs and murdering them all. Killing people in church. Setting bombs off at marathon finish lines. Hijacking planes and flying them into office buildings.
The racism that the wokes talk about is literally crying about stuff from 50-400 years ago and little whiny modern-day microaggressions.
Not exactly the same thing.
And speaking of "little whiny modern-day microaggressions".
It's systemic bro wrote:
George Floyd's death (which most people agree should have been avoided regardless of race) it shines a light on the bigger issues and becomes a rallying point.
But even Floyd's death is looking to less and less attributable to police action as the evidence comes out. He was resisting arrest, cop used an approved restraint, Floyd complained he couldn't breathe well before being restrained, had no indication of asphyxiation as a cause of death, had an OD-level of fentanyl in his system, and serious heart problems, and the cops had called an ambulance for him.
None of that, to me, adds up to "murdered by police."
If this had happened to my junky brother (which is very possible, knowing him), I wouldn't blame the cops at all.
HLq wrote:
Brad Higgins wrote:
I don’t think anyone thinks we can end racism, murder or rape.
But we should try. Complex I know.
If that's not what people really mean, then they should say what they really mean. If people say something that is different than what they mean, then they shouldn't be surprised when people think they mean what they said.
And I don't think you speak for everyone, so I can't simply take your word for it that everyone else means what you say they mean.
Your second paragraph completely undermines your first paragraph. Strong work.