Do all new runners need to start doing Couch to 5k as training?

Yes

Runnerdude69 wrote:

Yes

Then how do high school freshman who join XC for their first time do way more intense training and not get injured?

Lol

No

Playing tag and other games is more than enough. Kids didn’t have time in their lives to get lazy yet.

Couch-to-5k is basically for adults who have been sedentary because they work a full-time job and then neglect exercise completely.

Call it what you will. Those adults could get in shape by playing tag too, but I don’t think that they usually ask their friends if they want to go outside and play. Instead they just go out and jog a couple miserable miles alone.

The goal of Couch to 5k is just to finish a 5k. Anyone in halfway decent shape should be able to run 3 miles without stopping with no specific training, so the program is unnecessary for most people.

It might be useful if you’re overweight, but other than that it’s just a waste of time. New runners should build up slowly, but not that slowly.

/r/running in general is pretty ridiculous, although it’s certainly more welcoming than LetsRun.

You’re more concerned with high school freshman than your own life.

I never started my running from a couch ever.

Another poster stated to you do not believe your eyes. Your observations of teenagers are correct.

1) From age 12 to early teens, train as a 200m & 400m athlete and participate in youth XC. The way things are with covid-19 and budgets, it is more likely U.S. youth will need to participate in T&F clubs as do Europeans. Keep mileage low over the summer. No need to go nuts preparing for youth XC.

2) Gradually transition to 400m & 800m in later teens. Continue to participate in youth XC. No need to go nuts as a youth with mileage. No need to belong to summer 1000 mile club. You may have seen some high school XC athletes showing up first day of practice in those shirts. Speed development is like hitting a baseball, ballet and playing violin well. One must develop neuromuscular coordination for sprinting at a young age. The greats were youth 800m boys & girls. John Walker, Fibert Bayi, Thomas Wessinghage, Herb Elliott, Steve Scott, Mary Decker. Steve Holman was a better 800m athlete than 1600m athlete in high school. Steve Holman stayed away from 3200m as a junior & senior in high school in order to participate on high school A 4 x 400m relay. In U.S. high school T&F, 3200m is immediately prior to 4 x 400m relay. Wasn't Jim Spivey a sub-1:50 800 athlete in high school? Training as a low mileage 800m athlete as a youth is the key.

3) Gradually add mileage in one's twenties.

Steve Ovett was a youth 200m & 400m athlete who participated in youth XC. I participated in T&F before I participated in XC. I am so glad I learned properly how to sprint before I began logging mileage.

Because they are more talented than you and you will never be fast. Me either. It sucks huh?

Runnerdude69 wrote:

Because they are more talented than you and you will never be fast. Me either. It sucks huh?

It just amazes me the different amount of talent out there. The average person on r/running struggles to break 20 in the 5k. The average high school runner dreams of breaking 5 in the mile. People headed to a D1 track team already broke 5 in middle school

I mean i work freshman up to 30-35mpw with no experience. Remember you recover quicker when your younger also.

david45 wrote:

Runnerdude69 wrote:

Because they are more talented than you and you will never be fast. Me either. It sucks huh?

It just amazes me the different amount of talent out there. The average person on r/running struggles to break 20 in the 5k. The average high school runner dreams of breaking 5 in the mile. People headed to a D1 track team already broke 5 in middle school

STOP WHINING ABOUT TALENT YOU PANSY

GO RUN OR DONT

citius5000 wrote:

I mean i work freshman up to 30-35mpw with no experience. Remember you recover quicker when your younger also.

How many weeks did it take him to build up that mileage?

And what did his buildup look like? What plan did he follow?

david45 wrote:

And what did his buildup look like? What plan did he follow?

like you'd ACTUALLY follow it... Why are you so obsessed with high school freshman? Go see a psychologist.

I disagree. The events that a given person will be good at are largely determined by the type of muscle fibers they have naturally. Some kids are natural born sprinters, some are endurance monsters, and most are somewhere in-between. It's common for runners in middle and high school to be better at the 800/1600 than the 1600/3200 simply because aerobic development takes much longer than speed development.

I suppose Grant fisher, Alan Webb, and Drew Hunter were doing it wrong when in high school they ran 50, 60, and 70 miles per week, respectively. Not that I would recommend it for a high schooler, but Jim Ryun did even more volume and was notorious for his kick. Speed development is definitely important and should continue throughout their career, but neglecting aerobic development (perhaps the single most important factor for success in distance running) for all those years would just be wasteful.

Long Time Lurker wrote:

david45 wrote:

And what did his buildup look like? What plan did he follow?

like you'd ACTUALLY follow it... Why are you so obsessed with high school freshman? Go see a psychologist.

I will follow the plan if it works. I am obsessed because it is unfair that people younger than me can run and improve much faster than me. High school is also the time where most people run track or XC or the first time of their lives.

pansy. stop lying and start running

pathetic

If you want fair, move to a communist. Enjoy that you can explore your strengths instead of being forced into running. Do something that you are talented at.

We have different body dimensions. Cardio-wise, 200m swimming is roughly equal to 800m run. Mike Phelps certainly would under perform as an 800m runner, not due to muscle twitch ratio, but due to is less than usual body build. Almost no one gets a muscle biopsy before age 15. Universities or shoe companies or national athletic training programs usually order a muscle biopsy for athletes in their twenties. It's mostly T&F bro science to differ athletes by twitch ratio. No one is doing muscle biopsies on infants. We have no proof one is born with fast twitch. It is interesting that runners get caught up in twitch ratio more than do swimmers. In U.S., all inexperienced high school swimmers start as 50 yard free style swimmers. A 9th grader has to prove their ability as a 50 yard swimmer to be considered for other events. We have seen Miruts Yifter back in 1972 Olympics. It has been said that Yifter did a 48.xx 400m TT as soon as he got their in Munich. We all need speed. Was Yifter fast twitch or slow twitch? He also was a sub-13:15 5000m man.

We all do not have the same natural T-level. I would believe athletes with natural higher T-levels gravitate to power events and sprints.

Regarding Grant Fisher: You cannot prove he is better now because he ran 70 miles a week, according to you while he was in high school instead of a 35 or 40 mile per week 800m program in high school. If so, he would certainly be a faster 800m man and most likely a faster 1500m man today. You have no evidence Fisher is naturally slow twitch. I am sure he was capable of F.A.T. sub-52 400m in hs.

Regarding Webb: He should have stuck to 800m. You cannot prove Webb would not have thrived as a low mileage 800m man.

Jim Ryun, if born in a non-English speaking country would have certainly been an 800m man. Ryun, same height & weight as Duane Solomon had no business racing 1500m, 1968 Olympics, Mexico City. Ryun, I am certain would have been fit enough for Olympic gold, 1968 & 1972, 800m. I do not guarantee he would have earned gold. Eight-hundred metre races have a lot of elbow throwing. Ryun was clumsy and uncoordinated. He could have fallen in 800m races as easily as he fell in 1500m, 1972. Ryun should have been a low mileage 800m man.

None of your examples have changed anything I originally posted.