Most people today have office jobs where basically their main work is putting numbers on an excel sheet all day long, to then go to useless meetings where the decision has already been made before they even stepped in the room.
Is that what people long for to do in their life ?
I know people have interesting jobs, but let's be honest, it's far from being the majority.
If that is your understanding of the range of jobs in life, you are either 5 years old or are a complete loser living in your parents basement.
10s of millions of people have OUTDOOR, blue collar jobs besides those indoor jobs that don't involve sitting behind a computer.
With regard to universal income, no one is "afraid". The question becomes the source of that income. Businesses cannot guarantee certain levels of income as there's no such thing as guaranteed sales from which to salaries, and governments cannot do the same as to do so would involve creating public debts through financial instruments issued to the public...and there is no promuse that anyone would buy thise insruments.
Universal income is a fantasy of liberals that only ends in financial ruin over the long term.
Javman wrote:
If that is your understanding of the range of jobs in life, you are either 5 years old or are a complete loser living in your parents basement.
10s of millions of people have OUTDOOR, blue collar jobs besides those indoor jobs that don't involve sitting behind a computer.
With regard to universal income, no one is "afraid". The question becomes the source of that income. Businesses cannot guarantee certain levels of income as there's no such thing as guaranteed sales from which to salaries, and governments cannot do the same as to do so would involve creating public debts through financial instruments issued to the public...and there is no promuse that anyone would buy thise insruments.
Universal income is a fantasy of liberals that only ends in financial ruin over the long term.
Sorry but when 87% of workers in the US are white collar workers, it's fair to say it's the majority of jobs...
Whenever you give people something for nothing, it encourages them to do nothing. Look at any group that has been given reparations or assistance, they’re not better off. In fact people from welfare families, or Native American groups that receive free housing etc, are typically the lazier people because they don’t know the value of hard work
Javman wrote:
If that is your understanding of the range of jobs in life, you are either 5 years old or are a complete loser living in your parents basement.
10s of millions of people have OUTDOOR, blue collar jobs besides those indoor jobs that don't involve sitting behind a computer.
With regard to universal income, no one is "afraid". The question becomes the source of that income. Businesses cannot guarantee certain levels of income as there's no such thing as guaranteed sales from which to salaries, and governments cannot do the same as to do so would involve creating public debts through financial instruments issued to the public...and there is no promuse that anyone would buy thise insruments.
Universal income is a fantasy of liberals that only ends in financial ruin over the long term.
And in regards to where the source of that income comes from, easy : the Fed.
That's basically what they did these past 6 months, giving $600 a week to dozens of millions of people.
And nothing bad happened : no "hyper inflation", no massive market drop (yea 30% for 2 weeks, since then we're almost at all time high)...
I don't know, I know many kids from very rich housings who have hundreds of thousands of $ by the age of 18, and could do nothing if they wanted. But a lot of them still work their ass off. Yes some of them end up doing nothing and take drugs etc. But it's a question of education not income, if they've been raised well, with a good work ethic, no matter their income they still are productive.
old news wrote:
Whenever you give people something for nothing, it encourages them to do nothing. Look at any group that has been given reparations or assistance, they’re not better off. In fact people from welfare families, or Native American groups that receive free housing etc, are typically the lazier people because they don’t know the value of hard work
We have plenty of unproductive people - stockholders and landlords principally. In fact I think many people realize their own job is unproductive no matter how many hours they put in. Seems like a lot of people aren't needed to create a functioning society and the only purpose of many people's work is so we can legitimize giving them money. After all, we typically spend much more of our income than we save and this is how the consumer market is created.
I think the reason we don't have universal income is this prevailing notion whether its true or untrue that if we don't have a pay-for-work system then nobody would be motivated to work and society would fall apart. With barter economies it's easier to understand "value" and the worth behind certain goods. Now we just print money based on what I dont know and its distribution seems a whole lot more arbitrary.
i would 100% quit my job if we had a universal income that was enough to live off of. I would keep coaching if I could, but schools do not always like to hire coaches who are not teachers.
But if I could get the basic income + another 10-15k to coach 3 seasons, my life would be complete.
Inflation.
high school xc coach wrote:
i would 100% quit my job if we had a universal income that was enough to live off of. I would keep coaching if I could, but schools do not always like to hire coaches who are not teachers.
But if I could get the basic income + another 10-15k to coach 3 seasons, my life would be complete.
You're going to coach at a school that doesn't exist because all the teachers quit for the same reason you did. Also the school never would have been built because the construction workers quit for the same reason. Nobody works because everyone has free money.
EXCELshEET wrote:
Most people today have office jobs where basically their main work is putting numbers on an excel sheet all day long, to then go to useless meetings where the decision has already been made before they even stepped in the room.
Is that what people long for to do in their life ?
I know people have interesting jobs, but let's be honest, it's far from being the majority.
I wish I did that all day. Instead I'm always on the line for million-dollar decisions.
To answer your question, I think there's a few reasons it isn't viable yet, the first is that our gov't funding system is beyond inefficient and we have a lot of money tied up in overinflated ventures that may be better spent on UBI. Good luck trying to appropriate it (defense spending, I'm looking at you). The second is that our economic consumption model is very tied up in convenience spending. UBI goes against this because if you were drawing a partial paycheck you could work part time or take a less-demanding full time job and have more energy to interact with your surroundings. This doesn't benefit big businesses who have their hands in gov't, because many of them (Amazon, Verizon, etc) thrive on convenience and you not having enough time to interface with alternatives like mom and pop shops.
Universal income will come soon to a lot of countries. But the US might be the last to adapt that. The believe that there is no money to pay for it and that people need to work to too deep seeded in old minded brains.
The fact is that most jobs are going away and basic income has to be implemented.
Read the book "Utopia for Realists" from Rudger Bregman.
It's eye opening.
James Madison wrote:
high school xc coach wrote:
i would 100% quit my job if we had a universal income that was enough to live off of. I would keep coaching if I could, but schools do not always like to hire coaches who are not teachers.
But if I could get the basic income + another 10-15k to coach 3 seasons, my life would be complete.
You're going to coach at a school that doesn't exist because all the teachers quit for the same reason you did. Also the school never would have been built because the construction workers quit for the same reason. Nobody works because everyone has free money.
Or you offer higher salaries - the poster literally said he would want to still work as a coach.
You really want teachers who are just going to work for a paycheck?
Because people would rather not stand in bread lines, given the choice. Time is all we have that’s consistent. If you enjoy standing in a breadline with your time, great! I’d rather not.
Bezos himself is worth 200 billion
Should he make more for starting and leading a company? Yes. Should he make 200 billion while he pays workers 12 dollars an hour to work much harder than he does? No. Pure Marxism and pure capitalism are both wrong. There’s a common sense middle ground.
EXCELshEET wrote:
Most people today have office jobs where basically their main work is putting numbers on an excel sheet all day long, to then go to useless meetings where the decision has already been made before they even stepped in the room.
Is that what people long for to do in their life ?
I know people have interesting jobs, but let's be honest, it's far from being the majority.
I support an income of some kind for those who truly need it. A stipend to pay for rent and other necessities. I do not support handouts to drug users though. If you hand out money to people and they abuse it on drugs and liquor, they will end up on the streets because of their lifestyle.
So I support a basic income for those who have struggled to find work or can't work for whatever the reason.
RyecorDone wrote:
Inflation.
I assume you believe Universal Income would cause significant inflation due to theoretical increase in national debt. Governor Ronald Reagan while campaigning for U.S. Presidential election, 1976 blamed significant inflation during James Carter administration on increase in national debt under Carter administration. National debt grew significantly during Reagan administration but runaway inflation bordering on hyper-inflation was no longer. H.W. Bush made changes to balance national budget. Those changes were extended by W. Clinton. U.S. had a couple years of budget surplus under W. Clinton. Under W. Bush, significant increase in national debt. Obama had no choice in early years. Obama did make D.o.D. cuts and cuts to social security and veteran benefits. SInce Obama, social security and veterans benefits grow at a slower rate than inflation. Trump cut taxes in an irresponsible manner. Significant increase in national debt. U.S. has not been near hyper-inflation since Carter years. Universal Income by itself will not lead to near hyper-inflation or hyper-inflation. You may ask: How was near hyper-inflation broken during Reagan years? A. It started with Carter nominating Paul Volcker, Chairman of Federal Reserve in 1977 or 1978. Volcker was an inflation hawk. Bond and equity markets misunderstood Volcker's actions. Markets reacted as if Volcker was simply reacting to hyper-inflation. Volcker raised O.F.F. rate and Discount rates extremely high to break inflation. The benefits of Volcker's actions initially brought about 1981 recession then lead to growth sans hyper-inflation. U.I. could partially be off-set by military spending. U.I. could mean reduction in some social service personnel. U.S. spends billions means testing individuals. So much money is spent to decide who is disabled and who truly deserves S.N.A.P. or W.I.C. It's more efficient to simply give everyone a check.
My problem with it is that there will be an increased number of people who choose to live that minimal life and get everything for 'free'. If you didn't have to contribute to society and can get your food and apartment whatever else basic things for free then there will be an increasing amount of people not doing anything, and the people who are actually making the world go around will have to pay an ever increasing amount. Other things will become more expensive because there are fewer people getting things done, so there will be less of it to go around. You'll have a million lets runners quitting their jobs to only run and live off the system.
EXCELshEET wrote:
Javman wrote:
If that is your understanding of the range of jobs in life, you are either 5 years old or are a complete loser living in your parents basement.
10s of millions of people have OUTDOOR, blue collar jobs besides those indoor jobs that don't involve sitting behind a computer.
With regard to universal income, no one is "afraid". The question becomes the source of that income. Businesses cannot guarantee certain levels of income as there's no such thing as guaranteed sales from which to salaries, and governments cannot do the same as to do so would involve creating public debts through financial instruments issued to the public...and there is no promuse that anyone would buy thise insruments.
Universal income is a fantasy of liberals that only ends in financial ruin over the long term.
And in regards to where the source of that income comes from, easy : the Fed.
That's basically what they did these past 6 months, giving $600 a week to dozens of millions of people.
And nothing bad happened : no "hyper inflation", no massive market drop (yea 30% for 2 weeks, since then we're almost at all time high)...
Nothing bad happened yet. Inflation will take 60% of the money in your savings account over the next 10 yrs. and you won’t even notice.
What the government is trying to do right now is convince everyone that they are still necessary. The government must create legitimacy for themselves-terrorism, global warming, pandemics. People who discuss the Circus politics of the us with a straight face are adorable. Our beloved government would rather turn the populace of this country into a pack of obese sluggards than give up control. Their love for us is immeasurable