Move over EPO, there's a new guy in town: H7379

Count me in!

+1

I can guarantee that this drug is involved in every WR since 2016 and every sub 13,27,59 minute 5k,10k and half mary times

It's not even on the market yet and cyclists have been using it since 2016.

And people doubt my claim that athletes with the right connections - such as Aouita (Georges Mouton aka ''Dr Syringe') - could have been using EPO soon after it was first synthesised in 1983.

This will be an interesting plot to follow, how beneficial is this drug for endurance athletes, and how widespread is it's usage? It's new and not even on the market yet, so it may still be isolated to just few cycling teams, it which case major props to the investigators.

I would advise this board to detach a bit from the doping crusade. Athletics at the moment is not a clean culture, and every performance is suspect. Shouting "he's doping" at every opportunity about every athlete is a bit tiresome. We all know. We're not the testers. We're not WADA. Focus on the tangibles. Just like when you watch the Tour De France, it's currently just part of the sport at the moment.

Though it is a bit comical the the agents and doctors working with the African juggernauts at the moment are exactly the same guys who were working with cyclist in the early 2000s. I suspend my disbelief to watch some of these awesome performances, since there's no point in being disgruntled all the damn time. Sometimes you just got to enjoy the show

cyclingnews wrote:

German and Austrian police in charge of the Operation Aderlass anti-doping investigation have uncovered a new doping product, a synthetic blood substitute reportedly already used in the peloton despite not being available on the market.

Another point in case as to why police involvement is helpful, but of course Lord Conflict-of-Interest Coe with his murky deals will continue his fight against transparency and criminalization of doping.

ex ---- runner wrote:

Count me in!

Lame impersonation ^^

Gressier only needs a Happy Meal and 2 piece extra crispy to run a WR.

Doping controls can detect HBOCs, though specific tests are required in order to detect them. Such testing which would only be used where there is already suspicion of HBOC use.

Facts and Logic wrote:

I would advise this board to detach a bit from the doping crusade. Athletics at the moment is not a clean culture, and every performance is suspect. ….. I suspend my disbelief to watch some of these awesome performances, since there's no point in being disgruntled all the damn time. Sometimes you just got to enjoy the show

Agree but it sucks to see piles of money being given to people who are not playing by the rules. It's like watching tax dodgers get away with things. If there could be away to deflect interest away from the elite level of the sport then that would dry up sponsorship money and ultimately the sport would have to return to amateur status which would help break the cycle and motivation to dope. I think that if you are giving coverage to elite events then you should be considered to be encouraging the doping process; perhaps governments could step in to regulate things.

These drugs are detectable. Only a fool would use them.

I might be wrong here, but it seems to me it's just lyophilized hemoglobin that you can get from Sigma-Aldrich (a very very common scientific reagent distributor). 10g for less than $400

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/h7379?lang=en&region=CA

the british government is quite the connection, too

rungeek13 wrote:

I might be wrong here, but it seems to me it's just lyophilized hemoglobin that you can get from Sigma-Aldrich (a very very common scientific reagent distributor). 10g for less than $400

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/sigma/h7379?lang=en&region=CA

You're exactly right, it's exactly the Sigma-Aldrich product, per the article's description.

So this is just like, a regular blood transfusion with fewer steps, and only the hemoglobin?

So I guess their hematocrit levels may be normal, because there are not actually more red blood cells being produced than normal. So can't test for abnormal EPO levels, and I'm guessing the free hemoglobin in plasma would stay in the plasma if one is doing a really basic hematocrit thing with centrifuging the tube, so hematocrit would look normal.

Just spitballing here I know very little about drug testing.

But this isn't some "new drug"...

I wish I could find the links, and I've been searching for them for years, but in spring 2012 there were several posts, hints and rumors about a new drug hitting the scene. And there were several outlier performances that season. Rudisha's 1:40, the Paris 5000 with several men under 12:50 for the first time since the EPO era, and Paul Koech's near WR 7:54 steeple all come to mind.

Since the Dibaba's 1500m WR, and Ayana making a joke of the 10000m WR I've been absolutely certain that there is either something new on the scene or that WADA was intentionally looking the other way. Considering absolutely nothing has ever been done after the Jama Aden raid, I've been leaning toward intentional ignorance by WADA. Perhaps, this is the answer however.

There is ZERO doubt however that these incredible times we're see in the last couple years are completely synthetic. That includes all 12:50 5000m times we've seen this year.

Facts and Logic wrote:

I would advise this board to detach a bit from the doping crusade. Athletics at the moment is not a clean culture, and every performance is suspect. Shouting "he's doping" at every opportunity about every athlete is a bit tiresome. We all know. We're not the testers. We're not WADA. Focus on the tangibles. Just like when you watch the Tour De France, it's currently just part of the sport at the moment.

I disagree. It's easy to say that we should just worry about our own level of competition, and who cares what the pros do? But competitive sports exist on a continuum. I would argue that you have to hold the guys at the top to account, because ultimately that's the level we're all aspiring to, even if most of us know we have no chance.

It's sort of like people who say, for instance, that they don't care about doping in the NFL. NFL players play in a punishing league, and should be allowed to do whatever. But it is not predetermined from a young age who will play in the NFL and who won't. Players are constantly striving to impress scouts and reach the next level. So if NFL players are allowed to dope, you can bet almost all the good college players will also feel almost obliged to dope if they hope to impress scouts and possibly get drafted. And then good HS players will see how tough it is to succeed in college, so they're also likely to turn to PED's, etc, etc.

Same with elite distance running. What is the college guy who runs 29 for 10k (clean), or the woman who runs 33 for 10k, supposed to think? Should they not care about what the elite runners who they hope to compete with are doing? I think it's undeniable that they will care, and will likely be forced to either do likewise (used PED's) to get to the next level, or settle for being an also-ran. Or get out of the sport. And then those effects just kind of cascade down through the levels of competition.

Granted, this scenario has already existed for a long while now. But I think it is essential to keep battling against the amoral/immoral cheats at the top level, or else progressing from promising youth runner to eventually becoming elite, while staying clean, will become an impossible goal (if it isn't already).

Wow, thanks for the news article.

This is crazy. How much does this cost per race?

Are all these record times in the 5k, 10k, and marathon now suspect?

How would the Ugandans have access to this exotic drug if it's not even available in the market? Uganda is a poor country.

Coevett wrote:

It's not even on the market yet and cyclists have been using it since 2016.

And people doubt my claim that athletes with the right connections - such as Aouita (Georges Mouton aka ''Dr Syringe') - could have been using EPO soon after it was first synthesised in 1983.

Aouita came after blood doping, and on used the brits coe training methods, and saw, HGH, and PEDs as a natural evolution of the sport, given that the americans - soviet block, and europe used PEDs as the norm, not the exctption.

So naive was Aouita, and also the Australians, that he introduced the athletes to the real world of top athletics, and they soon smashed Aouita down, to bury their collective head in the sand,

more pathetic than PED users is the public and their reaction,

and their over the top orwellian system to track the whereabouts, and have access to their weiners, for a sample, and to kill or not kill a career, solely based on their competence.

teefurtree wrote:

But this isn't some "new drug"...

I'm confused. If it's not on the market, then maybe they're talking about a variant of it?

it's not ant all true that sub 28 min 10k means drugs.

under 2720 gets super suspicious, unless you're a special athlete born at altitude.