Why is gender fluid, but race isn’t?

I wouldn't disagree with that. I might add that I think gender is mostly biologically determined. Indeed, the identification with a gender that doesn't match biological sex may also be "biological", in the sense that it is shaped by physiology of mind. I doubt that some people choose their gender like the clothes they wear. They believe they are who they feel themselves to be. So I guess I am saying that "fluidity" in the end is really little more than departing from cultural stereotypes.

Which set of these is normal?

I have no idea which one is normal for you. Why not let us know.

Natural selection will decide which traits are desirable and passed on to future generations.

Well..... wrote:

Basic facts wrote:

Which set of these is normal?

I have no idea which one is normal for you. Why not let us know.

You’re the brainiac who posted it. So come on man, you dog faced pony soldier! Tell us what is normal out of that ridiculous list you posted.

For the people protesting gender fluidity here, I'd like to hear your point of view more here.

This is what I'm thinking your point of view is:

"For most of human history we've known there were men and women. It's not hard to define, pull down your pants. Now some people with mental disorders want to dress up like the other side and force new definitions of man and woman on everyone else. But words have meaning. If you want to transition be my guest, but you'll need a new word to describe what you are because man and woman are already taken and those words have a clear meaning."

Does that sum it up basically? Not trying to create a strawman, just trying to synthesize what I think are the main objections. Please correct me where I'm wrong or missing something.

Basic facts wrote:

Well..... wrote:

I have no idea which one is normal for you. Why not let us know.

You’re the brainiac who posted it. So come on man, you dog faced pony soldier! Tell us what is normal out of that ridiculous list you posted.

Actually if you look I didn't write it :)

There are some good reasons. Most people don't want to send their 12 year old daughter alone into the women's bathroom with a man dressed as a woman. Most people don't want men to take women's spots away in sports. Most people don't want schools to teach their children that it is morally correct for a man to pretend to be a woman.

healthy dude wrote:

There are some good reasons. Most people don't want to send their 12 year old daughter alone into the women's bathroom with a man dressed as a woman. Most people don't want men to take women's spots away in sports. Most people don't want schools to teach their children that it is morally correct for a man to pretend to be a woman.

Seriously? The faux-feminist arguments again? I bet you'd also object to a "man dressed as a women" using the men's bathroom alongside your 12 year old son.

These same arguments were given to object to homosexuality - fears about gay men using bathrooms as places of sexual predation.

raceisnot wrote:

Race isn't "completely an invented thing". You can't be white and be black. You can be mixed race.

[/quote]

Gender isn't "invented by society" that's absolute nonsense that's been disproven with very basic biology. You know, things like physical, neuroanatomical, neurochemical, even personality and intellgence differences between the sexes.

John Money, the guy who coined the idea that gender is a "social construction," was a pedophile who caused the suicide of a guy (David Reimer) after telling his parents to get him gender reassignment surgery and raise him as a girl. He also caused his brother to commit suicide too after making him and his brother perform sex acts on each other. That's where you're getting your ideas from.

Gay men, obviously not all, do use public restrooms as places of predation.

healthy dude wrote:

There are some good reasons. Most people don't want to send their 12 year old daughter alone into the women's bathroom with a man dressed as a woman. Most people don't want men to take women's spots away in sports. Most people don't want schools to teach their children that it is morally correct for a man to pretend to be a woman.

Thank you for the serious response. I happen to agree with you on the women's sports issue.

For the other two issues :

- Restrooms - I hear you. I would probably not hire an adult man to be a babysitter to my young kids. I think of women as the more nurturing, protective sex. I think of men as the more deviant sex. Of course these are broad stroke biases, but I share them too. So for you, a trans woman in the bathroom is on the same level risk-wise as a cis man, and sure, I wouldn't want my daughter alone in the men's restroom, I just don't trust other adult men. This seems valid to me. We have no reason to think that trans women are especially deviant, but at best they should be equal to cis women, and at worse equal to cis men, so it would appear there could be some increase in risk, just thinking through it logically. I get it.

- Morals - Is there a moral code that says it's incorrect for a man to pretend to be women? Genuinely asking, like is that in the Bible, or where would that piece of morality come from?

they do wrote:

Gay men, obviously not all, do use public restrooms as places of predation.

Straight men, obviously not all, do use public restrooms as places of predation

Trans men, obviously not all, do use public restrooms as places of predation

Gay woman, obviously not all, do use public restrooms as places of predation

Straight women, obviously not all, do use public restrooms as places of predation

Trans women, obviously not all, do use public restrooms as places of predation

Selecting one of those people and suggesting they are uniquely able to use bathrooms to assault people is just boneheaded

That said - on the restrooms - as I think through the scenario I just don't feel threatened by trans women the way I would with a cis man. I think this is a case of we have a gut reaction first, then try to come up with a logical explanation for it afterward.

I can work through the logic above that risk should increase or at best stay level with a trans person, but my gut really just isn't threatened by them. Maybe that my gut thinking they are closer to the cis woman spectrum than cis man. I'm not sure, but can understand why people could react differently depending on how they view trans people - are they more like the sex they transitioned to or away from?

I copied an article, just to point out that the people throwing around "58 gender terms" didn't confuse that to mean there were actually 58 genders. There are just a lot of terms to describe slight variations of basically the same thing.

I think you are trying to insinuate that the predominant gender classes, cis men and cis women (people who identify with their birth sex) are "normal" and everything else is not. I'd guess that 95-99% of humanity would fit into this class.

Just because one situation is predominant (or "normal") doesn't make the rest of them wrong or invalid, it just makes them less common. There are plenty of things in this world that are not normal, but are perfectly acceptable. There are also plenty of things in this world that are not normal, and are quite special and beautiful.

Hope this helps.

Armstronglivs wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

On forms, I check "male".

What's your deal? I thought we were in agreement with respect to the social and cultural aspect of gender versus biological.

I think gender for most is defined by their biological sex, which is mostly male or female.

Gender is characteristics of "masculinity" and femininity." They are ideas that are socially constructed, not encoded into our DNA. Things that were considered "masculine" 300 years ago would get you laughed at and probably (and perhaps ironically) lead to speculation that you were in fact trans.

Anyone guy who has used public restrooms will have at least one story of a creepy gay guy leering at them. It’s happened to me plenty of times. I even threw the trash can at some guy I caught watching me pee through a hole in the toilet wall.

If you are a runner, and you use public restrooms while out on a run, you have a creepy gay guy in the restroom story for sure.

They cut holes in public toilet walls and leave hook up messages to do creepy gay stuff in public toilets.

Lol, WTF? No dude you’re the outlier here. No one has ever been creepy toward me in the men’s restroom.

Racket wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

I think gender for most is defined by their biological sex, which is mostly male or female.

Gender is characteristics of "masculinity" and femininity." They are ideas that are socially constructed, not encoded into our DNA. Things that were considered "masculine" 300 years ago would get you laughed at and probably (and perhaps ironically) lead to speculation that you were in fact trans.

Whst I meant by that comment is that for most people their gender corresponds to their biological sex. In accordance with their biology they would describe themselves as male or female, or man or woman. My comment was not a reflection on gender stereotyping.