18:59 to 15:37 in a year and a half?

Pajac wrote:

The Wizard JS wrote:

No, he isn`t. He calculates ( more precisely his coach.. me )) ) on the three most important factors for the result , maxVO2 pace, LT-pace and the so called aerobic power pace ( Long Steady Distance) . To get the most benefit of your easy runs most of them should be close to the "breakpoint" where the run starts to be more anaerobic, but not faster than you really recover.And especially when you run this effective low mileage way it`s of highest priority that you get most out of your easy runs as possible . Sometimes when you are tired after a race or a tougher workout the easy run the day after can be slower.

So? No blood samples, no races and no time trials. How do you calculate his LT?

Why do you bother? You tell I`m a liar and a fraud. Why would I tell you my coaching secrets??

The Art of coaching.

Based on 3km=09:26, first workout:

12x1000:

1st week:

1st lap: 03:32min/km-159-132sec

13th lap: 03:32min/km-158-122sec

What does it mean? Do you see avg pulse is so low? It is mean that 3KM by 09:26 is not all out and my shape far better than TT race result and our 03:32 pace is not LT pace, it is Marathon pace based on HR and effort in legs and breezing feeling.

Next step, what to do? - Of course to increase pace for next LT intervals and so on. Until pace vs HR vs effort in legs vs breezing will be correlated.

Yes it is more than possible. Back when Arcadia High School has Jim O'brien coaching them, he two kids in one year go from 17:30's to 14:40. That was from freshman to sophomore year! I thought wtf. Not 1 kid, 2.

Great Oak and I am sure quite a few other programs have kids go from 17-18 down to mid 15's regularly. I had a kid go from high 18's in XC to 9:30 for 3200 the following track season and then 14:40 in XC the next season. Although he was a freak of nature.

It is for sure possible if you put the work in.

Good luck buddy....2 years minimum

ElGuerroujFan wrote:

Sub 18 to sub 16 are two completely different training cycles. Break 18, then 17, then 16. It will take 3 training cycles MINIMUM, unless you are just starting off of no training. For the training cycles themselves I honestly don't know. Technically, it would have to be mainly V02max, since the 5k is at mostly V02max pace. I broke 5 in the mile, which equates to somewhere in the low 17s so that's all I've got. A great 5k training thread would be colelio's training thread, I'll see if I can get it.

LMAO why are you giving advice on this thread. Look, I get that you have good intentions but you are wrong. The time it takes for someone to drop from 17:59 to 15:59 will vary massively due to talent, age, training history, and seriousness of training. Many will never do it. Some talented individuals will do it sooner.

What is that VO2 max drivel anyway??

The Wizard JS wrote:

Pajac wrote:

So? No blood samples, no races and no time trials. How do you calculate his LT?

Why do you bother? You tell I`m a liar and a fraud. Why would I tell you my coaching secrets??

The Art of coaching.

This is why I bother ^^

You should sign with "The Art of lying" instead.

And you lie a lot.

You may have missed a post where I said I think it's a pity because you are very knowledgeable, but that you ruin everything with your lies and fake handles.

It is my wish that you start sharing your knowledge without lies. You don't need them to be appreciated.

Take care.

This probably isn’t worth arguing. But...

You are a 9:26 3k runner claiming a 71 VDOT. That correlates to a full minute faster on the 3k. Your 3k TT would have to have been run at somewhere between your 10k and HM pace.

Why do you keep quoting your heart rate, LT pace etc. race results speak for themselves.

Pajac wrote:

The Wizard JS wrote:

No, he isn`t. He calculates ( more precisely his coach.. me )) ) on the three most important factors for the result , maxVO2 pace, LT-pace and the so called aerobic power pace ( Long Steady Distance) . To get the most benefit of your easy runs most of them should be close to the "breakpoint" where the run starts to be more anaerobic, but not faster than you really recover.And especially when you run this effective low mileage way it`s of highest priority that you get most out of your easy runs as possible . Sometimes when you are tired after a race or a tougher workout the easy run the day after can be slower.

So? No blood samples, no races and no time trials. How do you calculate his LT?

JS laughs in the face of all physiologists.

Maybe if you are a fit mid-20s guy who did it before and lost some fitness it is possible. From scratch I highly doubt it.

highhoppingworm wrote:

This probably isn’t worth arguing. But...

You are a 9:26 3k runner claiming a 71 VDOT. That correlates to a full minute faster on the 3k. Your 3k TT would have to have been run at somewhere between your 10k and HM pace.

Why do you keep quoting your heart rate, LT pace etc. race results speak for themselves.

Ok. By your logic my 3k TT is 09:26 (03:08 pace) at 176bpm pulse, why I have this:

20x400:

(pace-pulse-recovery time):

4th week:

1st lap: 03:07min/km-151-69sec

20th lap: 03:07min/km-149-70sec

5th week:

1st lap: 03:07min/km-148-56sec

20th lap: 03:07min/km-151-63sec

Why my pulse so low in this workouts (3K pace all out by your logic)??

If 3K TT result is correlating with my shape, that means I ran 4 weeks in a row at 03:10-03:07 pace all out efforts with pulse in zone 3-4 and felt fresh, super fast recover, how is it possible??

Try yourself to run all out 3K effort 75 seconds 20 times with recovery in between by 55-75 sec and than tell me how is it feel, your average pulse, breezing, etc. :)))

I think that's possible for someone who has mid-14 potential.

By all means... run a new 3k and post it to Strava then. Frankly an all out 3k effort will take less out of you than 20x400.

This is the same silly question asked in many different ways. If a 13 flat 5k guy took up running at 17 years old, he would run 20 minutes for 5k. He would run 17 minutes 2 months later and 15 minutes a month for that. On 18 months of training at 18-19 years old, he would run 13:30 after starting at 20 minutes.

talented big wrote:

This is the same silly question asked in many different ways. If a 13 flat 5k guy took up running at 17 years old, he would run 20 minutes for 5k. He would run 17 minutes 2 months later and 15 minutes a month for that. On 18 months of training at 18-19 years old, he would run 13:30 after starting at 20 minutes.

This is interesting. last month we had the huge thread on what Bekele would run for a 5k if he had somehow led a life where he was a lifetime non-athletic farmer up to 25 years of age. There were some like Canova who thought he would run 15 or 16 minutes on his first attempt. no practices. Others thought like 24 or 25. Several people guessed all times in between.

Pajac wrote:

The Wizard JS wrote:

Why do you bother? You tell I`m a liar and a fraud. Why would I tell you my coaching secrets??

The Art of coaching.

This is why I bother ^^

You should sign with "The Art of lying" instead.

And you lie a lot.

You may have missed a post where I said I think it's a pity because you are very knowledgeable, but that you ruin everything with your lies and fake handles.

It is my wish that you start sharing your knowledge without lies. You don't need them to be appreciated.

Take care.

Please stop accusing me for being a liar! I never lie here on the boards. I just produce power for every runner that comes my way. That`s my right sign. To make power over and over again.....a never ending story.To coach fast improvement in a natural way is an art that few master.

The Wizard JS wrote:

Pajac wrote:

This is why I bother ^^

You should sign with "The Art of lying" instead.

And you lie a lot.

You may have missed a post where I said I think it's a pity because you are very knowledgeable, but that you ruin everything with your lies and fake handles.

It is my wish that you start sharing your knowledge without lies. You don't need them to be appreciated.

Take care.

Please stop accusing me for being a liar! I never lie here on the boards. I just produce power for every runner that comes my way. That`s my right sign. To make power over and over again.....a never ending story.To coach fast improvement in a natural way is an art that few master.

We have been through this before.

What is the name of that female sprinter? Why are the times you claim not listed anywhere?

Why does only one of the Kenyan elite athletes you claim to coach say that you are actually his coach/have coached him?

Jan, I will repeat this: I think you are a great guy, a knowledgeable coach and you could be a great one too.

Your, let's put it this way, "interpretation of reality" and your multiple fake handles to promote your services ruin everything for me and for others.

You can do better and I hope you will.

The Wizard JS wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

I think the thing that bothers me most about this thread is that this dude is calculating his VDOT value based on how quickly he runs his recovery runs...

No, he isn`t. He calculates ( more precisely his coach.. me )) ) on the three most important factors for the result , maxVO2 pace, LT-pace and the so called aerobic power pace ( Long Steady Distance) . To get the most benefit of your easy runs most of them should be close to the "breakpoint" where the run starts to be more anaerobic, but not faster than you really recover.And especially when you run this effective low mileage way it`s of highest priority that you get most out of your easy runs as possible . Sometimes when you are tired after a race or a tougher workout the easy run the day after can be slower.

Terrible coaching advice, especially for someone who’s only been running for 7 months.

Why do you constantly seek validation for your haphazard methods on these boards, it screams insecurity.

Haphazard methods!!?? You must be kidding ))

A couple of hundred runners of different levels from hobby joggers to top elite world class runners coached by me and all improved !

Your treadmill needs calibrating and your strava data is worthless. Come back when you’ve run a credible 5km TT.

All right.

Calibrated treadmill:

10km/h on display - in fact 9.84 km/h (without load)

14km/h on display - in fact 14.12 km/h (without load)

19km/h on display - in fact 19.67 km/h (without load)

Bump up.