Sub 15 at 30 yo - 8 weeks or less? Or crazy...

You can find 20 seconds in a 5 K just by better pacing, having the right pack, the right weather, getting good sleep the week prior, and having the right mindset. 5 Ks are not just about having the physical strength - you can gain 30, maybe even 40 seconds by just learning how to turn off the natural "I am miserable, so please slow down" governor. My best 800 is 2:12, but with that I have been able to run 15:37 at the age of 31, and in that race it hurt more than it ever has in any race in 35 years of racing - even though I have run 65+ marathons. But I did some training to train my brain to not cut down the drive when it hurts, so I was able to do it.

Hey CArunner! Glad to see another one of us larger dudes. Like you, I've never had great results dropping mileage for an extended period of time, I keep wanting it to feel better than it is but it just becomes the new normal instead of making me feel more energized. I have a bad habit of running most of my runs on the quick side (right around 7:00), so I will try slowing down my easy days more and see how that goes. Taking your advice I slowed down to 7:40 today ahead of a faster workout tomorrow. It took some willpower actually, running slower than usual can feel tedious. Good luck in your quest this Fall! Are you able to arrange a race or paced time trial, or going solo? Cheers, -Not A Golfer

That 5xmile in 4:55 is a sure sign that you're in sub 15min 5k shape. I can agree with most the advice given to this point. The one thing that I would suggest is that you should try and do a 3k time trial @9min flat or just under 9min a week before doing the 5k time trial. Also when doing the 5k time trial I would suggest that you do your last hard workouts two days out for the time trial. and maybe have someone pace you at least through 3k if that is possible.

Otherwise, I think you should be able to go sub 15, and good luck!!

talent o wrote:

Very unlikely since you have a running background. You are a bit past your prime so you will probably not set lifetime PRs.

I set my 3000m steeplechase best at 34, after around 20 years of competition.

I am impressed by your post-collegiate improvement, Not A Golfer. You are heading in the right direction. Let us know how it goes.

Sounds like you are ready. Take a couple days easy, find some pacers and go for it.

The worst that happens is you get feedback on all your training. You can then try other workouts, do another time trial, and compare results.

You're already there on the track and a fast road course. I ran 14:40 at 31. It would have taken a race effort for me to do a 5 x mile like that.

I agree with the general consensus that you are ready or at least nearly ready to dip under 15. One thing I'll add, if you have a training partner or someone else who can take you through at least 3k on pace, that will make it way easier. One of the hardest things about time trials is having to focus on the pace the whole time (as opposed to races where you can focus a bit more on your competitors). Being able to just focus on staying right behind someone for the first 9 minutes or so will make it easier to continue to push at the end.

Also, your improvement is inspiring. As a college-aged runner, I hope to still be lowering PRs in my late 20s/early 30s. Best of luck!

Hey Not A Golfer,

Good luck to you as well. I know what you mean about trying to slow down the easy runs. I have been shooting for 7:30 effort (adjusted for hills) or slower on my non-workout/long run days and it definitely takes discipline.

The running club that I am a part of is participating in a virtual race series this fall against some other clubs and two of the races are 5000s on the track. So hopefully I will have a group of 4-6 guys to run with. I did a solo TT back in July with almost no specific work, just mileage and ran 15:40 but it was 85 degrees and windy. Hopefully with some targeted workouts, improved fitness, competition and better weather I can get there.

You can do it. Definitely. It may not happen in eight weeks, but you'll get there eventually. Wish I had maintained that level of shape after college, we are similar age and similar college times. I was also a very mediocre low 27s 8k and high 4:20s mile. But I got into lifting weights after college and didn't really look back. Race weight was typically 125-130 lbs. I'm 5'9'' and now 165, mostly bigger in my chest and shoulders. Still, miss being able to go out and run faster than a jog lol.

I think it's very possible.

Some other sessions to try that may help develop your ability to improve 5K pace economy other than the one's you mentioned... It looks like you have developed good pace sensibility/muscular resistance (25x400m), and good aerobic power close to goal pace, as well (5xMile)

1) Aussie Quarters (8x400m @ 5K-3K Effort w/ 200m Floats)- Can you run 4800m of this close to 15:00?

2) 4x 800m @ 2:25, 800m @ 3:00- Is this feasible? Great treadmill session.

3) 6K-8K @ 95% of Goal Pace (5:12-5:08)- Critical Endurance Marker

4) 1600m Time Trial in <4:36- That's 5% faster than goal pace, which aligns with most people's thinking of the relationship between vV02 Max and 5K ability

5) What are your weaknesses? What are your strengths? Create a combo session to address both in a specific way.

For example, a slow twitch dominant runner might complete something like 10x 400m @ 3K- Mile Pace followed by a 4ml Tempo @ 90% of Goal Pace (5:20) to work on specific speed when fresh, or vice versa if you are quick.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

Oh man I hear you on that one. Before I ran my PR last fall I tried to do some solo TTs as well. Ended up windy and miserable, phoned it in at 15:50 two weeks in a row before saying “screw this, I need to jump in a race”. But there were no competitive races around, I had to wait until a Turkey Trot. I’m sure the company and better weather will make all the difference for you. Heat acclimation from the summer can offer a good bit of improvement too Cheers, -Not A Golfer

CArunner12 wrote:

Hey Not A Golfer,

Good luck to you as well. I know what you mean about trying to slow down the easy runs. I have been shooting for 7:30 effort (adjusted for hills) or slower on my non-workout/long run days and it definitely takes discipline.

The running club that I am a part of is participating in a virtual race series this fall against some other clubs and two of the races are 5000s on the track. So hopefully I will have a group of 4-6 guys to run with. I did a solo TT back in July with almost no specific work, just mileage and ran 15:40 but it was 85 degrees and windy. Hopefully with some targeted workouts, improved fitness, competition and better weather I can get there.

Thanks for your support, man! It means a lot. Don’t let anyone tell you to hang em’ up when you’re done with college. I literally had my spikes hanging in a closet for 3 years before I decided to take them down and start running again. Fun fact, I still sometimes race in those same spikes (Nike victory)... bought them in 2008. Cheers, -Not A Golfer

Quintus Cassidamius wrote:

I agree with the general consensus that you are ready or at least nearly ready to dip under 15. One thing I'll add, if you have a training partner or someone else who can take you through at least 3k on pace, that will make it way easier. One of the hardest things about time trials is having to focus on the pace the whole time (as opposed to races where you can focus a bit more on your competitors). Being able to just focus on staying right behind someone for the first 9 minutes or so will make it easier to continue to push at the end.

Also, your improvement is inspiring. As a college-aged runner, I hope to still be lowering PRs in my late 20s/early 30s. Best of luck!

Thank you for these. Having some different workouts / benchmarks than I'm used to is really helpful. 1) This seems very doable - although it might just be my comfort level with 400m repeats 2) Also seems pretty reasonable, I'd like to try this one for sure 3) Holding this through 8K would be amazing... but I have my work cut out for me to get there. I will have to be careful how to approach this, probably later on in the cycle 4) I like this one for sure. That's something I could fit in at the start of a workout, take a longer recovery, and then work into an interval session on tired legs 5) I've thought the most about doing 2-3x 2 mile or k repeats. I like the rhythm of miles, but a 5k hurts. So I'd like to extend my comfort zone beyond a mile. Alternatively, it might be interesting to do a workout with a repetitions of 800m with 80s / 65s (2:25) lap times. Something to jar the system and simulate a finishing kick Cheers, -Not A Golfer

Update on training: so far, so good!

*Mileage staying high - last 3 weeks were 80+, including 1 at 100 (probably stupid, but felt great)

*2 interval workouts per week plus long run (have treated it as a tempo run every other week, but will start to back off now)

*Interval workouts are alternating: 1) shorter, faster track intervals at target race pace or faster (300s, 600s, 1000s), 2) Mile repeats or a threshold run on roads. Not worth getting into too much detail on these, they've felt great and largely exceeded expectations in effort vs. split times

*Key workout this week was 5x mile (not 1600) with 2:30 walking recovery in 4:53 average. The first 3 felt under control but the last 2 were definitely closer to a "race" effort and I did not run them comfortably

I believe I am making good progress, but I am not there yet. I expect keeping up the workout intensity and starting to lower the mileage over the next month and a half, particularly the long run, will put me in a good spot. My other conclusion is that I am definitely in 10K PR shape right now (comparatively weaker PR), so I plan to take a crack at that after the 5k.

Cheers!

-Not A Golfer

Just hire LRC's top coach the great JS. He coached me from 16:30 to 15:37 in just two months!

Update for the curious -

The last 2 months have been mixed. I lost some time due to injury but managed to nip it in the bud (dropped the workouts for 2 weeks, aggressive ice and ibuprofen, maintained my mileage at a slower pace). I've come back feeling strong and have finished up my last hard workouts before tapering, which are showing that I am in PR territory but probably not sub 15 shape without a real race on my hands.

I've been able to run 4:49-4:53 pace comfortably in repetition workouts (3x1600 followed by shorter faster intervals), as well as a 9:00 3K with more left in the tank. Sustaining a high leg turnover past 3K seems like it will be a real challenge though, and historically I've been much better at workouts than racing. I plan to spend the next 3 weeks tapering and running time trials depending on the weather and how I'm feeling. Not the world's clearest plan, but it's been a fun ride and I'm eager to see what I can do before focusing on some serious mileage over the winter.

Cheers,

-Not A Golfer

.

Not A Golfer wrote:My fitness right now: tough to judge as I haven't really tested myself yet. In the spring I was knocking out some fast workouts (highlights: 5xmile in 4:55 or 25x400m in 73s) and destroying long runs of 18-20m, and I feel like I'm at least capable of the 400m workout now. Last week put up 4xmile in 4:59 so I seem to be on the right path. Obligatory: 6', 165 lbs.

Hope I can do it, but it's uncharted territory by a long shot... any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

-Not A Golfer

Good workouts and good times being posted. With the mileage being put in I'm a little surprised you're at 165lb. I wouldn't worry about it. It's just what it is. I always felt I was a little chunky when I was competing at 5'10" and 142-145. Didn't stop me from barely going under 30 min for 10K.

Did you get your mixed bag term from watching the weather channel alot? I always hear mixed bag of precipitation on there.