Where to get an ironman triathlon plan geared towards runners?

espejo wrote:

Swim a little

Bike a lot

Run some

this

Espejo09 @ Gmail. Com

idk if swim bike run will see this and he might have different opinion but for cycling base there is generally more structure than just easy mileage like with running.

These workouts can be things like tempos and short/hard reps at low cadence (similar to going up a hill in a harder gear). Long ride is also one of most important things ive found when I have been training. but its the same general idea of you do a bunch of cycles under "base" where you are increasing your total volume every week, taking a down week when needed and then you get into build where do some faster work

Working Harder wrote:

Yep. One of the best pieces of advice ever given to me was "ride your bike a lot, to the point you want to throw it in the bushes. Then pick it up and go ride some more."

Does anyone on this site enjoy their training, or is it all about accomplishing something?

What is your cycling back ground?

Regardless - this is the most important (and time consuming part) of a triathlon

Given your running background - put that on the backburner - Kona qualifer friends who ran sub 3hours in the marathon did not put in more than 30MPW

Cycling should be your main focus - get a proper trainer (e.g. KICKR) and start putting in 12-15 hours on that a week.

Swimming - do what you need to do to finish the mileage in a decent time - maybe 2 workouts a week of 1 hour each. Nothing more. Wetsuits are amazing and will help you a lot.

Bike bike bike bike bike bike run run swim

Thats basically it.

Difference in schedule: Almost none. Instead of 20-30 hours per week, we look at 10 - 20 hours per week for 70.3 of training time. Long rides might end on the 3-4 hour side of things rather than 6 hours etc.

Swimming is mostly technique. Best bang for your buck is hire a swim coach. Technique will make you faster more so than fitness.

Base for tri is pretty much the same as outlined above with some very, very subtle changes. We get enough low/non impact in during the swims and bikes for the runs to be fairly pointy. In general we do around 5 bikes per week in base with 3 swims and 3 runs. A swim might be more technique focused during base than interval focused. It might not be two true run workouts, but rather a progressive tempo one day and some longer intervals the next. For cycling everything is structured. Because it's a non-impact closed chain sport (non impact as the feet stay on the pedals and closed chain because the feet are clipped and anchored around the motion pattern). We can push things pretty far. In general, there is a long ride day (3-6 hours) and a few interval days (%FTP for 10 - 20 minutes) during base. We might see some more z2 development in base than right before a race and we will see less VO2 focused intervals. I like to schedule in strength training during base more than anything.

SBR

It's all about accomplishing something

Follow-up question and I apologize if this is a dumb one -

Would you expect a former runner to struggle to get their HR up on the bike? As I mentioned, I have just been beginning to consider semi-serious training. I got a HR monitor recently and was surprised to see most of my time HR-wise is being spent in zones 1 and 2 (but mostly 1!) even when I feel I am pushing decently hard. For example, today I did a 65 min ride with 3 sets of 20 sec on / 40 sec off segments pretty hard, and only touched zone 3 for HR for a couple of minutes in total from the whole session. This is a trend with all my workouts, it seems.

So I guess this means I still must have some OK aerobic fitness or I have terrible bike fitness or I just don't know how to push myself on the bike yet? Or my legs are extremely weak? Any of these seem like possibilities based on my limited understanding.

With all that in mind, should this change my strategy if I'm looking to put in a big chunk of cycling on the trainer this winter, but struggling to get the HR up? I am going to try to get a cadence sensor as I figure that will help me to keep those rpm's up - I figure that should probably be a focus.

What trainer do you have or did you not get one yet ?

I started with a trainer a couple months ago more as another way to get some zone 2 in without beating up my legs. (I seem to break down after 60-70 miles a week)

I’m hitting 60 miles running now and 80-100 a week on the trainer with one longer ride.

I like it a lot and have dabbled with the idea of doing a half tri at some point.

I too do most of my rides in zone 2 HR and zone 3-4 power. I can push to low zone 3 HR if I’m really cranking though HR can’t stay in zone 4 long because the watts are too high and I guess my legs arnt there yet.

Side note your bike max HR should be lower than running HR so you might need to readjust your zones for cycling.

Yep, I've got a Wahoo kickr snap. Currently doing 4 runs (20-30 mpw) + similar bike figures to you (90-100mpw) and having similar thoughts about maybe trying to build toward a 70.3 someday. For sure agree on the max HR. It's just amazing to me, I'm feel like I'm working decently hard and have rides where my average HR is like 110-115....

A guy upstate wrote:

Would you expect a former runner to struggle to get their HR up on the bike? As I mentioned, I have just been beginning to consider semi-serious training. I got a HR monitor recently and was surprised to see most of my time HR-wise is being spent in zones 1 and 2 (but mostly 1!) even when I feel I am pushing decently hard. For example, today I did a 65 min ride with 3 sets of 20 sec on / 40 sec off segments pretty hard, and only touched zone 3 for HR for a couple of minutes in total from the whole session. This is a trend with all my workouts, it seems..

This is common. You just need more time on the bike and eventually, you'll be able to hold higher HR efforts on the bike.

Generally, as a runner, you're legs will go much earlier than your HR/lungs. This is because cycling uses different muscles and you haven't trained them.

Someone else feel free to correct what I’ve been doing but I’ve been seeing average watts increase this way as I too was finding too much of my ride was in zone 1 HR.

Do 10 mins warming up to get you to base of zone 2 up the watts 10-15 for 10 more mins. This usually gets mr HR up 2-3 bpm. Do this again for 30+ mins or until I start hitting zone 3 hr then back down 10 watts until I hit an hour.

I am looking to build up to 3 1.5 hour rides in the evening from an hour the winter.

If you’re only running 30-40 miles a week you should probably aim to add more bike sessions.

I like my rides on sundays outside. Don’t really stick to my HR zones and still feel fresh. Just kind of push the flats and hills and coast on the downs.

Usually am landing at an average high z2 low z3 HR.

Also because you’re new and not used to a specific position on the bike I’d suggest focusing on doing most of your training in an aero position if possible.

I assume your don’t have tri bars so hold the bottom of the handlebars with elbows close to 90 degrees. This should at least keep your back pretty flat.

I don't think there are any big secrets to putting together a decent triathlon plan, & one that focuses on running since it's a strength. You, actually, might want to focus a bit on the other two if you want to get after a time goal since the running is already so solid.

Swim: 2-3 sessions a week (3-4 is better): 1 threshold day, 1 strength day, 1 easy day, 1 long swim day

Bike: 4-6x/week: 1 threshold day, 1 long ride w./ some 70.3/140.6 pace work, recovery rides, short rep work

Run: 4-6x/week: 1 threshold day, 1 long run day, 1 fartlek or hill repeat day, as many easy days as you like

Bricks: at least once a week, 2-3 times is better

I don't think triathlon is rocket science. The swim is the shortest but is the weakest event for a lot of runners moving to the Tri. 3-4 times/week in the pool will get you strong enough to hold your own. You'll be on your bike for ~ 50% of the event. It's up to you if you're gonna do 10 runs/bikes a week and split it 6 runs to 4 bikes but you might be better off flipping that.

People get bogged down in training hours. You can do a Tri on the low end- 2 swims, 3-4 rides, 3-4 runs, & be around 10 hours/week. 15-20 puts you in the competitive age group category. If you can train more, you're probably a pro and/or will find your true potential.

Thanks for this I was having this same problem too. But does that mean I should aim for zone 2 now or keep my effort level easy at zone 1 even if it feels like zone 2 and just wait for my body to adjust until it's able to handle zone 2 for the same effort level? Cuz i feel if I try to hit zone 2 now i'm just trashing my body and requiring more recovery time for what are supposed to be easy cafe rides.

Bumping this - so is the key just riding more? Is it riding at an even higher cadence, or focusing on low cadence work to get my legs up to speed? Focusing on sweet-spot & threshold efforts? Strength training?

During recent quality sessions, my cadence is low to mid 90's for the overall workout, with avg cadence between 100 and 105 during up-tempo portions. And yet, HR rarely gets out of the 140's with one exception of an ftp ramp test I did where I got up to 169...

The runner in me thinks a lot of Z2 'base' work for extended periods will get me fitter, but it seems like maybe I just need to harden up and work in longer threshold (or faster) efforts until my legs catch up, since my aerobic ability is already sort of in decent shape. Interested in any feedback!

bump

I adjusted my posture when cycling after i posted my question. That seemed to do the trick. Try that

You're saying that adjusting your posture allowed for better power output, or somehow impacted HR?

Yes lol i was shocked too. I used to exert 30% more effort to get the low end of zone 2 with bad posture. When i fixed it, i can comfortably stay in zone 2 with less effort. I don't know whst happened, being a hard hand gripper i was getting numb so i was forced to change uo my posture and so my heart rate and effort changed too. Don't underestimate bad posture.