Kid's run a 51 flat 400. Pretty good wheels.
Kid's run a 51 flat 400. Pretty good wheels.
Grassrunner wrote:
Kid's run a 51 flat 400. Pretty good wheels.
It's a shame tinman is going to screw him up. I wish he picked a decent coach.
Being guided by Tinman and his younger road exploits could explain why he is good. Seems like he has been putting together a good base starting at an early age. Tinman doesn't push his athletes to their limits in training and that is good for a younger athlete still in high school.
I'll also venture that the COVID pandemic has helped as well. No thrice weekly high school racing (and multiple events to score points), no high pressure district and state build ups, no NB high school nationals or JO either. The kids has trained solidly and smart all summer and delivered a great performance as a result.
My prediction is that we will see a quantum leap forward in high school and college performances in 2021 due to longer/better base building and pent up emotions. I am seeing far more high school athletes, especially girls, out training on local trails than in any other summer. They all look universally more fit, less tired, and running with better form. Personally, I hope that the new high school running calendar sticks - XC in late winter/early spring, track contested April - June. That seems to me like a better development schedule (6 months without competition) for young athletes and more in line with the international calendar.
Put yourselves in the shoes of Rheinhardt Harrison. He's a rising junior. He got into a very good race and ran 4:01. How cool must that be? It had to be a pretty happy trip home. He also ran an 8 second PR, so I don't think there's much to criticize as far as performance or coaching. Maybe at some point there will be, but not today. It's funny because in this thread, he's drawn comparisons to Ingebrigtsen and Lagat and that he'd run the second fastest high school mile of all time and at the same time he's being declared a future failure.
Right now, he's a guy who's beginning his junior year of high school with a 4:01 mile already under his belt and if the posters on this thread have posted accurate stats (they probably have), he is still making drastic year to year improvements. That's pretty awesome. It will be fun to see where he is in 5 and 10 years, for sure. But for now, 8/15/2020 was a really good day for him.
Yes, I should have done a simple google search on Rheinhardt before starting this thread.
I don't follow age group/Junior Olympics meets but still should have been aware of his 4:09 mile from June.
Intriguing how he improved 8 seconds in the span of 2 months. If the AZ race was against high schoolers that would make sense -- but it was an open race like MCDC. Guess he had a pretty significant growth spurt :-).
Believe Rheinhardt mentioned post-race he will be doing a 5k soon. There are the Los Angeles Under Armour Sunset tour meets coming up as well as the Ed Murphey/Memphis meet and the Blue Oval/Drake U meet to conclude the US summer racing season. Likely of those.
Also, for anyone who knows more, has Rheihardt raced FootLocker or NXN yet? Or, does he end his xc season after the FL state meet?
cmon man wrote:
I’m not saying if you break 4 you’ll burn out, but if you run 4 flat you’re good. I’m aware that plenty of low 4 high schoolers get screwed over too.
But realistically a sub 4 high schooler (assuming they’re are tactically sound racers) should be all American by their sophomore year in the NCAA and get a championship at some point and probably turn pro or hit the oly trials/world championships qualifying mark a couple years after college.
Yared Nugese is an example of a good progression. 4:06 high schooler. Two years into college he wins an NCAA 1500 and runs ridiculous times on the DMR. Also runs a 7:46 3k this past winter.
Same with someone like Joe Klecker. Low 4 guy who does great in college and goes pro
Yared is the progression we would all like to have. But it is uncommon. How have Soren Knudsen, Isaac Green, Ross Proudfoot , Austin Hindman or Callum Bolger progressed to name the 5 guys right next to him on the 2017 list?
At a high level the mistake people make is thinking that there is some talent difference between a 3:59 guy and a 4:06 that will exist when they are 21+. Just too much random stuff between age of starting training, being 6 months more mature, HS coaching, teammates, and so on to worry about a half dozen seconds.
On topic, I have no idea what the progression of a a kid who has been running for a like 8 years at age 16 should be. Obviously there is some physical maturity issues but maybe this early training just gets you to your peak at a younger age. Maybe most 16 year olds are only getting 95% of the way to their natural talent because they only have 2000miles in their legs while he is getting 98% cause he has 4000. Who the heck knows. I hope he enjoys the ride and I hope he has another 5+ years of PR's in front of him.
That first article said he was trying to make a 180° turn while going 25 mph on a bicycle. I don't think that is possible on a road.
It's a dangerous spot where it happened. Others have crashed badly as well.
dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:
cmon man wrote:
I’m not saying if you break 4 you’ll burn out, but if you run 4 flat you’re good. I’m aware that plenty of low 4 high schoolers get screwed over too.
But realistically a sub 4 high schooler (assuming they’re are tactically sound racers) should be all American by their sophomore year in the NCAA and get a championship at some point and probably turn pro or hit the oly trials/world championships qualifying mark a couple years after college.
Yared Nugese is an example of a good progression. 4:06 high schooler. Two years into college he wins an NCAA 1500 and runs ridiculous times on the DMR. Also runs a 7:46 3k this past winter.
Same with someone like Joe Klecker. Low 4 guy who does great in college and goes pro
Yared is the progression we would all like to have. But it is uncommon. How have Soren Knudsen, Isaac Green, Ross Proudfoot , Austin Hindman or Callum Bolger progressed to name the 5 guys right next to him on the 2017 list?
At a high level the mistake people make is thinking that there is some talent difference between a 3:59 guy and a 4:06 that will exist when they are 21+. Just too much random stuff between age of starting training, being 6 months more mature, HS coaching, teammates, and so on to worry about a half dozen seconds.
On topic, I have no idea what the progression of a a kid who has been running for a like 8 years at age 16 should be. Obviously there is some physical maturity issues but maybe this early training just gets you to your peak at a younger age. Maybe most 16 year olds are only getting 95% of the way to their natural talent because they only have 2000miles in their legs while he is getting 98% cause he has 4000. Who the heck knows. I hope he enjoys the ride and I hope he has another 5+ years of PR's in front of him.
Totally agree. I will say about Hindman tho because he went to a high school near where I lived at the time, that he has turned pro and works with Project Podium, basically the USA triathalon development program.
Completely aware of this, thought it stupid then too,lol.
cmon man wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
Most runners have short primes, it has nothing to do with whether or not they ran sub-4 in high school.
I’m talking about American high schoolers...
Jim Ryun: successful but very short career
Tim Danielson: burned out
Marty Liquori: decently long and competitive career
Alan Webb: ran very fast and his best accomplishment is 8th in a world champ. Short competitive career.
Lukas Verzbicas: Car accident. No longer competes.
Matthew Maton: burned out real bad
Grant Fisher: currently a 3:36 guy, still developing hopefully
Drew Hunter: currently a 3:35 guy, still developing hopefully
Michael Slagowski: burned out real bad
Reed Brown: has lowered his mile time 2 seconds under one of the best middle distance coaches in the NCAA
Leo Daschbach: ???
So it’s not a very bright list.
Now look at all the runners with short careers who DIDN'T break 4 in high school. A much longer list.
king999 wrote:
Always been consistent on class records thing.
You would no longer be a HS senior either
In fact you are clearly OUT of HS entirely at that point
They should never have counted that stuff
Whether you agree or not, T&F News always used a cutoff date of 8/31.
Read above posts?♂️
cmon man wrote:
Totally agree. I will say about Hindman tho because he went to a high school near where I lived at the time, that he has turned pro and works with Project Podium, basically the USA triathalon development program.
I.E. he will probably never run a faster mile:) I did leave off a couple of the BYU runners also cause I didn't know their mission status. At a high level when lookin at sub 4:10 guys you can probably expect like 10% of the runners to improve by 10-15s, 30% to improve by 5-10s, 40% to improve <5s, and 20% to get worse/give up. I am not sure it really matters if you are talking 3:59 guys or 4:08 guys. What I am sort of shocked at is given the number of sub 4:05 guys we have had in the past decade, that we don't have a lot more 3:36->3:38 guys in the pro ranks. I am guessing it just doesn't pay for them to keep on training after college. You run 3:40 as a 22 year old and call it a career.
Why is it very likely that Jakob willnever run faster than that ever again? You might be right, but you might be wrong. But very likely? His father has very good control. Let's see in Stockholm on Sunday.
Jim Ryun made 3 Olympic teams in the 1500, that's not a short career if you ask me.
NJ fan wrote:
Grassrunner wrote:
Kid's run a 51 flat 400. Pretty good wheels.
It's a shame tinman is going to screw him up. I wish he picked a decent coach.
A legit 51 (i.e. not some 51.9 high on a relay) is pretty decent speed for a 16 year old. I do sort of wish Tinman was one of the guys who was a big fan of 8-12s sprints. As a kid this is the time to be developing top end speed. It isn't going to change race results much (i.e. aerobic base dominates when you are better than your competition) but it is something that sets you up for when your 20 in races against people that have the same level of talent.
He ran much faster than 4:55 in 8th grade. He won Jr. High New Balance Mile that year at 4:37 in 95 degree heat.
popeye doyle wrote:
Jim Ryun made 3 Olympic teams in the 1500, that's not a short career if you ask me.
Correct. Not really his fault his career was "short." He ran in the pre-professional era and then joined a pro circuit which made him ineligible for subsequent Olympics.
dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:
cmon man wrote:
Totally agree. I will say about Hindman tho because he went to a high school near where I lived at the time, that he has turned pro and works with Project Podium, basically the USA triathalon development program.
I.E. he will probably never run a faster mile:) I did leave off a couple of the BYU runners also cause I didn't know their mission status. At a high level when lookin at sub 4:10 guys you can probably expect like 10% of the runners to improve by 10-15s, 30% to improve by 5-10s, 40% to improve <5s, and 20% to get worse/give up. I am not sure it really matters if you are talking 3:59 guys or 4:08 guys. What I am sort of shocked at is given the number of sub 4:05 guys we have had in the past decade, that we don't have a lot more 3:36->3:38 guys in the pro ranks. I am guessing it just doesn't pay for them to keep on training after college. You run 3:40 as a 22 year old and call it a career.
That’s kinda what I was getting at with the Sub-4 high schoolers not turning out. In the US there isn’t as much emphasis on long term development so a lot of guys that are running 4:0x are most likely overtraining or compromising their career long term for a couple years of standing out above the rest, which is understandable.
Programs like Great Oak, FM are consistently one of the best programs in the nation bet very few of their runners have done anything after high school.
With this kid, he’s running 4:01 after running in middle school and before, which either means he has built a really strong base over the years (similar to Africa and Europe) or he has been working really hard since a young age and only has a couple years left in him.
So no one really knows. I hope he pans out as a talent, partially because he has a super cool name, but only time can tell.
dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:
NJ fan wrote:
It's a shame tinman is going to screw him up. I wish he picked a decent coach.
A legit 51 (i.e. not some 51.9 high on a relay) is pretty decent speed for a 16 year old. I do sort of wish Tinman was one of the guys who was a big fan of 8-12s sprints. As a kid this is the time to be developing top end speed. It isn't going to change race results much (i.e. aerobic base dominates when you are better than your competition) but it is something that sets you up for when your 20 in races against people that have the same level of talent.
agreed