Max Burgin 18year Old 1:44.8 800m...WOW

I'm from Oldham so the most likely performance enhancer is PCP and just running mental times off high amounts of pain threshold numbing...same for young Max I'd presume...

casual obsever wrote:

Hiyero wrote:

Deanouk

You making a defense of Coe based on his physique truly shows you are either deceptive or ignorant. The steroids are not intended to bulk up a runner like Coe. Please educate yourself before you embarrass yourself further.

+1

Just have a look at for example roided Baumann and Decker.

My bet is on "deceptive" in this case, as that has been pointed out to Deanouk several times, as has the fact that testing was very rudimentary during the Cold War Wild West doping era. Yet he continues to argues with the "Coe has been tested a lot" joke.

Blood doping was legal. No need to test.

Russian use BOTS not actually people first of all. Second, you really think the Russian government is somehow orchestrating an underground discussion normalizing the usage of PEDs in sports?

Absolutely delusional. Russia doesn’t care about athletics. They care about making themselves look good and increasing their global influence. After the London 2012 scandal they won’t be messing with sports influence for a looooong time.

You are officially crazed.

BTW, if I apply Coevett and Deano logic to that 1:42 in which Brazier closes like a freight train, his running in lane 3 through traffic, it was probably a 1:41.5 race. Thanks for reposting!

"Do you ever wonder why the steroid era in the U.K. still boasts three sub-3:50 milers?"

No. Once an era has three sub 3.50 milers it always will have them.

Do you expect at some point that era will have only one sub 3.50 miler?

Your question makes no sense.

casual obsever wrote:

Hiyero wrote:

Deanouk

You making a defense of Coe based on his physique truly shows you are either deceptive or ignorant. The steroids are not intended to bulk up a runner like Coe. Please educate yourself before you embarrass yourself further.

+1

Just have a look at for example roided Baumann and Decker.

My bet is on "deceptive" in this case, as that has been pointed out to Deanouk several times, as has the fact that testing was very rudimentary during the Cold War Wild West doping era. Yet he continues to argues with the "Coe has been tested a lot" joke.

Dieter Baumann did have pronounced muscularity for a long distance runner (and a tall one at that)

Not that I think for a moment that he was roiding to the extent of the GDR athletes, and with their crude knowledge, in the 70's (or as you claim Coe was).

Mary Decker did look way more muscular in her late career when she had her testosterone result

Not sure if you made the 'point' in this thread that was quoted that 'Britain produced their three sub 3:50 milers in the steroid era', but you've made it 1,000 times before.

So you think steroids are more effective than EPO for milers? Or is it that the 90's generation of British milers were more ethical than the 80's? Doesn't that in itself contradict your statement that 'everybody dopes'. And why did the British only choose to use steroids in the 80s? You've claimed that the West Germans were as roided as the East Germans in the 80's. Steroids were legal everywhere. As far as I know, GB was one of the first countries to introduce testing, and I think the first to introduce random testing.

In other words, all your points are pure pants as usual, but instead of answering my obvious objections, you'll just keep repeating them here ad nauseum for the next 20 years.

Coevett you just make things up. Dieter Baumann was 5’10 137, and he did not have pronounced muscularity. Maybe compared to you he did.

Deanouk wrote:

Sapel wrote:

Burgin (GBR) was also wearing the controversial Nike Zoom Viperfly, the one on the far left of this image that we have not seen much yet from athletes.

https://qz.com/1796016/nikes-2020-olympics-shoes-use-features-from-its-vaporfly-design/

That’s a shame then! I would have to question how much faster these new spikes make athletes run!

I assume Brazier was wearing them too during his time trial the other day, and Burgin only ran a second slower.

Coevett wrote:

just stop already wrote:

Speculation about doping is fine, as long as you give reasons. I reported some of Armstronglivs posts, because he's literally a robot who posts that all runners are doping in every thread (even multiple times when nobody bites). He doesn't even follow running. He probably logs into cycling and swimming forums and does the same thing.

I think Armstrong is either overly rose tinted about doping in the past, or too cynical about doping in the present (take your pick). But I think his beliefs are genuine.

Then there are certain others who insist that 'everybody dopes and always have' who I'm sure are paid trolls trying to deflect attention from countries or regions with huge doping problems (such as Russia and Kenya).

I have followed the sport for well over half a century. I am persuaded by all the information that has become publicly available in recent years, as well as what I have learned from anti-doping officials, that sport generally now has serious doping issues - it is certainly rife in running. The problem is demonstrated by the very limited effectiveness of testing - only 1% return a positive - in relation to the far greater number of athletes believe to dope but not getting caught. Estimates from sources like the IAAF suggest at least 1 in 3 elite or championship level runners are doping. It could be more.

It means that no top performance now can be trusted to be clean and to me that certainly includes performances by 18 year-olds described as "unbelievable" by some commenters, as is the subject of this thread. We have gotten used to incredible performances, because doping has enabled them.

I know fans don't want to hear such views but with what we know of the sport it is as valid a belief as that these astonishing feats could be clean, and ignoring the issue will not make it go away or produce a clean sport.

cmon man wrote:

Russian use BOTS not actually people first of all. Second, you really think the Russian government is somehow orchestrating an underground discussion normalizing the usage of PEDs in sports?

Absolutely delusional. Russia doesn’t care about athletics. They care about making themselves look good and increasing their global influence. After the London 2012 scandal they won’t be messing with sports influence for a looooong time.

You are officially crazed.

They use a combination of bots and trolls.

Of course they care about Coe banning them from the sport. It's been a national humiliation. Russia was running a State sponsored doping program but 'they don't care about athletics'?? makes a lot of sense. Guess the GDR didn't really care much about sport either.

They would create Fancy Bears but not pay a few dollars to some nitwit to post here and constantly slag Coe and claim 'everybody dopes but Brits dope even more'?

You sound like a Russian bot, btw.

Coevett, you assume incorrectly, this was already discussed on another thread. Brazier has yet to wear the Viperfly, but that does not mean he will not wear them in Monaco, so please prepare yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHtzPYMobwc&t=1878s

Sleeping Policeman wrote:

Sapel wrote:

Based on Burgin's history, we can predict this will be his fastest race of the year. Solid to have a 1:44.75 on your resume and Top 20 All-Time performance for the UK.

There is no reason at all to assume this will be his fastest race of the year.

This was literally his first track race of the season and he was solo for the final 400m and significantly ahead of the rest of the field.

I could easily see him breaking 1:44 *if* he can get into a fast race.

While he took a nice scalp today in tuka, Stockholm showed that burgin still has a long way to go before he is at brazier level. Solid run for him and if not for the ridiculous hype he has gotten from some, 1:46.02 for 6th in a DL would rightly be seen as a solid showing for him. That being said, 49.90 for the rabbit is near ideal pacing for a guy in his PR range to go quicker and based on your comment and some others on here I would have expected him to blast a PR in a race like that.

Disappointed with his Stockholm result.

A learning experience. He's 18 and running 1:46 in a hot race where he was not expected to be near winning. He looked young in that field.

seasoned ranker wrote:

Disappointed with his Stockholm result.

What was disappointing about this? I would say it is a perfectly reasonable result for him given the circumstances (outlined by Halifax above)

It was a disappointing result. We would have expected him to go 1:44.XX in a race where he does not have to lead and can benefit from drafting.

That said, this is obviously not a disappointing season for Burgin. A 1:44 at 18 is highly impressive and he may simply need a bit of time to adjust to not being a front-runner. We have to remember that almost every 800m race he has run in his life has been from the front bar some BMC events.

He should still be in line to run a 1:43 next year too.

usnspecialist wrote:

seasoned ranker wrote:

Disappointed with his Stockholm result.

What was disappointing about this? I would say it is a perfectly reasonable result for him given the circumstances (outlined by Halifax above)

It just reminded me of last year when he ran a fast time in a small meet and wasn’t able to compete well in a pro field. I get that it is good learning experience for him but I won’t pretend I am impressed with him being 6th after running 1:44.75 solo.

This is burgin's 3rd best time ever and also only his 3rd loss in 3 years. Kid needs time to learn how to race against the big boys and there is no shame in that. He will be fine and I think today was a reasonable performance (I give it a B/B-) given the circumstances. My thought process for a "reasonable" progression at a championship level is something like this (I.E what i would be content with as a member of his team).

2021: making British team and pushing for a spot in the semis

2022: semifinals

2023: contending for finals spot

2024: making finals and potential medal contender.

Bear in mind also that making finals in 800m might be one of the toughest things an athlete has to do at a champs given the 24 into 8 policy.

He was in the main pack and beat Tuka and Rotich. A solid debut at this level.