What's Happened to runners these days?

Jim below Average made me laugh. But as pointing out in original post, this isn’t aimed at Jim below average who is just keen on the whole running for fun vibe. It’s for the more competitive runner. He/she is certainly doing more than 20 each week, but probably not doing enough

I would argue that it is harder on the body to be sedentary than to run. Its just that the affect of running is hard at that moment.

Interesting thing about 'injuries' and running. Back in April I messed up my right hip flexor. We had a work step competition coming up so I decided to take some downtime to let my leg get better. Ended up not running for 5 weeks which was the longest break I have taken in over 7 years. By the end of it my hip was still not feeling great, all that time 'resting' didn't seem to make much difference beyond the first 1-2 weeks. I did a 45 mile week before the step competition kicked off and then did 80, 100, 80, 80 and after the 100 mile week my hip was pretty much normal. The body needs movement to repair its self. The key is going at a pace to reach the desired stimulus. 10-12 hours of running mostly easy pace is not 'hard' on the body, the body is designed to do a lot more than that.

I didn't realize I was reading Joe Average Runner and not LetsRun. My mistake.

antinoqe wrote:

trollism wrote:

My issue is more with the people who think doing stacks of miles at 9-10 minute miling is actually beneficial. Nope. Your 2 hour 10 miler is junk.

You say 9-10 and then use an example with a 12 min/mile pace?

Doesn't really matter.

It's still worthless plodding. Unless you're a 45+ minute 10k runner or something.

If you're anywhere near being a good runner it's pointless. Do some proper training.

Define proper training...

If all you do is 9/10 minute mile then of course you're wasting your time. If you do a couple solid effort workouts it doesn't really matter what pace your easy run are at. The workouts are what matter most.

It takes time to build up to 10 hrs per week, but providing this is done properly, average joe will have a much better base to support speedwork. Average joe will be running a lot less than 100 miles/week, but will probably be more injury resilient than hammering it 3 or 4 times per week.

This route is average joe's best bet to become a better runner. Average joe will train at a slower pace than a good runner, but the principles are the same. To become good at something the time has to be put in week in week out. To remain good at something, the time still has to be put in week in week out.

lol wut wrote:

I would argue that it is harder on the body to be sedentary than to run. Its just that the affect of running is hard at that moment.

Long term. On any given day its "easier"on the body to be sedentary than run. Only when cumulative effect is measured, ie obese vs in great shape does this become apparent.

You dont have to be obese to see the effects of being sedentary vs being active. I may not be all that old (40) but I have way more aches and pains (such as low back pain) from no to little exercise than on days when I run.

trollism wrote:

antinoqe wrote:

You say 9-10 and then use an example with a 12 min/mile pace?

Doesn't really matter.

It's still worthless plodding. Unless you're a 45+ minute 10k runner or something.

If you're anywhere near being a good runner it's pointless. Do some proper training.

so ignorant its hilarious

Agree with this. 90% of the time I feel generally better when I don’t have rest days during the week. If I’m feeling tired I’ll just go for a 30 minute run. Pace/distance completely irrelevant but I find it much better than a complete day off running.

It's seems that a lot of LRC posters do not remember nor are aware of the 1990s. Back then, nearly every American was into low mileage, high tempo, and lots of speed work because a few scientific studies lauded that as superior to the time honored Lydiard Method. During that fantastic decade, America became a second rate distance running nation while East Africa rose to absolute dominance.

+1

This guy knows what he's talking about.

Amen. I would listen to a person like Joe Vigil. 4 factors.....

1. Genetics. What mom and dad gave you.

2. Environment including training partners, weather, facilities, auxiliary/medical/training staff...

3. Experienced coach with a sound long term plan.

4. Motivation. Internal/external.

His question was which ones can you control? Ahaaaaa....

After nearly 50 years as an athlete/coach I've had to evolve in many ways from personal experience as a runner and as someone responsible for performance enhancement of others.

I'll start by saying that there just isn't many Jim Ryun's, Marty Liquori's, Bob Kennedy's, Frank Shorter's, Galen Rupp's, Steve Prefontaine's, Lingren's etc.... that we look to as the standard. There are a lot of good runners in that next tier behind the greats mentioned and others not mentioned. So what's the difference between the second tier and the Greats? Look at Vigils list again. Which ones can be controlled?

I'll also throw in another variable and that's luck. There are many unlucky occurrences that prevented you from knowing about others that were on the edge of greatness but just couldn't get there.

Now, go down the levels. College, high school, Junior High, those that discovered running on their own later in life etc... Which of Vigils list can be controlled for them regardless of their running age? It's the same at all levels.

I always tell my kids that hard work beats talent 90% of the time. It's those darned 10% that are talented AND hard working that are really hard to get around.

I've worked with elites including state/national champions and Olympic Trials qualifiers and some of the slowest kids in the state. It's my job to be a good communicator at all levels and give sound, developmental direction over the time we are together. I can't control some of the things on the list and neither can the athlete.

However, it's the internal motivation that is where it has to start. That's from having the confidence to give it their first try and evolving in a way to understand and own the training that is pointed to specific performance practice and racing goals. Appropriate development of the mental and emotional facets of the athlete is obviously critical as well.

I always tell the athletes that it is never my workout, my race, my team etc...It's always theirs. Not all are ready or capable of OWNING every facet of the experience. So, it's my job to help them realize what they are capable of with truth and honesty so they can own it and enjoy it regardless of what level they achieve.

As a coach, one of my main responsibilities beyond the development of the athlete is to make sure they CAN consider coaching/teaching others. I can guarantee you that there are coaches that weren't superstars on the track/course/road but they know what it takes to help others. That's probably what I'm most proud of.

What can they control and what are they willing to do with no guarantees?

So why then, were more people through 70s-80s much more competitive/harder working than those today? They could control the same things and had less access to training material, shoe technology, sports science than the runners of today. Maybe information overload isn’t helping anyone.

psyche wrote:

trollism wrote:

Doesn't really matter.

It's still worthless plodding. Unless you're a 45+ minute 10k runner or something.

If you're anywhere near being a good runner it's pointless. Do some proper training.

so ignorant its hilarious

+1

Weekly running times/ milage is overrated wrote:

justrun! wrote:

You’re a classic example of what the OP is on about. World class marathon runners are doing 120mpw at least and they’re probably doing it in 10-12 hours. Average joe could do 70-80 in 10 hours and do pretty well.

Nope, Joe Average is not running 70-80 mpw. That's a lot of miles.

Jim Below Average might try this but he will end up injured.

Average is probably way below 20 mpw.

No. he said average Joe 'COULD' do 70-80 AND do pretty well, he didn't say they were. This is why threads like these end up as slanging matches as people struggle to understand what people type.

From a weekend warrior perspective, i'd agree that most people just need to run more, too many think 3 miles at 10k pace is better than regular 60-90mins at MP+1.

psyche wrote:

trollism wrote:

Doesn't really matter.

It's still worthless plodding. Unless you're a 45+ minute 10k runner or something.

If you're anywhere near being a good runner it's pointless. Do some proper training.

so ignorant its hilarious

So does this jogging work for you then?

Are you running 28-29 times?

Exactly right. And the whole point of starting the thread. I've been thinking about it a lot lately and it all comes down to the following things:

1. Impatience - people want a quick fix.

2. Lazy.

3. Strava. (look how fast i run all the time, i am so fit)

4. Social Media in general and the whole comparing yourself to others

5. Obsession with 'Marginal Gains'

Rewind back to the 70s-90s. People were almost secretive about their training. They didnt want their mates/rivals to see what they were doing so they had an edge come race day. Ask someone how they're going and they'd almost always say 'ohh not great, we'll see how this goes' - Today, every detail of every run is in peoples faces.

Now, to answer a lot of the excuses. There's 24 hours in a day. If you want to be good at running, you'll prioritize your time so that you can spend some of it running. Sometimes, things crop up but IF you really want to get your daily training in, you'll fit it in.

Motivation is the biggest bunch of crap there is. For serious runners, again i'm not talking to those who don't care all that much, i'm talking the competitive 'weekend warriors' as mentioned above. Those people should get into the routine that their daily run or even double run is just a normal part of their day. As in the same as their commute or making coffee/food, even your day job. They don't even see it as exercise. Just a simple necessity - something that has to be done day in day out for years and years. That's how you get good at it.

Talent goes so far but if you're willing to commit to training every day aiming to do about 10 hours per week, you'll become a bloody good runner.

Stop kidding yourselves that you're doing enough. Stop taking a rest day because you had to work an hour extra that day and you're now tired. Or you were stuck in traffic on the drive home and now if you run you may end up going to bed 45 minutes later and you think your optimum 8 hours of sleep per night is now ruined so you best skip the run. Stop thinking you need to do all these little 1% marginal gains, when deep down you're not even doing the optimum amount of RUNNING each week yet!