kuiu wrote:
effing duh wrote:
Because Trump is an idiot.
Who would have seen that brilliant reply coming?
occams razor
kuiu wrote:
effing duh wrote:
Because Trump is an idiot.
Who would have seen that brilliant reply coming?
occams razor
I'm not sure how you think sheep have anything to do with it. NZ is 5 million people and mainly an urban nation, with most people living in a few major cities. It managed the crisis by going hard, fast and early into a 6 week lockdown. Apart from international tourism, its economy is moving again. The US is an immeasurably more wealthy nation, and I'm sure it could have protected people's incomes as NZ did for the few weeks of a lockdown. That is also the view of Nobel economist Paul Krugsman.
The US could have adopted the same general approach as those countries that have brought the virus under control. Death rates would be low, infections suppressed, and the economy moving. Schools would be opened. Because the US didn't consistently follow its own public health guidelines the crisis has become much worse, with no end in sight. This has been a failure of national leadership. Trump's denial, conspiracy-thinking and ineptitude has needlessly cost thousands of lives and crippled your economy. With only 4% of the world's population you have over 25% of its deaths.
The US may not have been able to implement the same policies in every detail as those smaller nations that have brought the virus under control, but it could have done much better than it has. It now leads the world with the worst indicators.
No pandemic.
A pandemic would be taking lives of all ages, healthy or otherwise.
Who is dying? Elderly, unhealthy people, or those dealt bad cards like asthma or cancer.
Instead of masks, let’s require Fitbits so all of the obese slobs in America are required to walk at least 3 miles daily.
Morans never learn wrote:
joedirt wrote:
It is spiking in countries that are in air conditioning mode with an OA enthalpy greater than the RA enthalpy and in countries in heating mode. Northern Europe and Canada are doing fine because they rarely have air conditioning. Most of Europe is at a latitude closer to Canada.
AC is always on in Houston. Your theory is interesting and valid. But the truth is that all indoor shopping malls, grocery stores, office buildings, hospitals, etc. run HVAC systems 365 days a year. Cities in the southern US run cooling systems starting in March. Only in the poorest areas, where Covid appears to be raging, is there a lack of indoor cooling.
AC is always running in Houston and other parts of Texas, but in the early spring, winter and late fall, a lot of that is run in economizer mode (where the return air is vented out through barometric relief dampers and fresh outdoor air is drawn in as it has a lower enthalpy than the return air. Hospitals are usually good about having HEPA filters (which filter out 99.7% of the harmful particles from the recirculated air), they have negatively pressurized rooms (so that air from rooms with COVID positive individuals is not mixing with the air for the general population and generally have UV disinfecting lights in the air ducts to disable the DNA in viruses, bacteria, pollen, etc. and to decrease build up of mold on evaporator coils (especially in a humid place like Houston). Unfortunately most offices, schools, groceries , public transportation and churches do not have these attributes. They get enough air changes when operating in economizer mode to keep things safe, but when they are recirculating the air through poorly maintained systems (with older levels of air changes), people get sick.
So just for you americans the virus is making a strong comeback in Europe. In Switzerland where I am we've got all kinds of new stricter rules now. Night clubs are back to being closed among other things.
So no, Europe is not doing that well. (Though probably better than the US)
Things aren't adding up for you because you are a moron. I haven't read yet if you have answered this, but what town in what state are you from? You are completely misinformed about how the virus is doing outside the US, so it's very likely you are wrong about your town. What town? I'm certain that you are wrong.
NZ has not managed the crisis but they have managed to fool their population into thinking that they have. They closed their borders for 5 weeks. All that does is stop the virus from coming in for 5 weeks. Then what ? They open the borders and, surprise, the virus comes in again. They have no plan for controlling the virus as a society, they simply spent 5 weeks patting themselves on the back. They should have spent that time figuring out how to best live with the virus, instead of doing nothing. NZ’s economy is almost totally dependant on tourism. How many tourists are going to waste their time travelling to the end of the earth, to sit in quarantine for 2 weeks ? The correct answer is: None. New Zealand showed what happens when you nail the doors and windows shut, and hide in a back room. Hope they like living in that back room for the next several years.
YMMV wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The virus spreads because of contact where there is less social distancing, wearing of masks etc. Covid doesn't distinguish between races, ethnicities, cultures, genders and ages - all can become infected. Through leadership and good management countries like New Zealand have eliminated the virus (no community transmission). The US hasn't because it has lacked leadership.
Of the six countries in Oceania, NZ is #5 in death rate, i.e. second-to-worst. Twice the rate of #4, Fiji. Hardy an example for the world.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
That is a really misleading thing to say. NZ has had 22 deaths. Fiji has had one death, but their population is 897,000. With such a small figure, you cannot reliably directly compare statistics like that. NZ population is near 5 million. The fact is that NZ has only had 22 deaths, which is pretty good going for a country where 87% of the population live urbanly, and who also have quite heavy tourism (flights in/out). Comparing NZ and Fiji is like comparing apples and oranges.
New Zealand have almost 4 million visitors per year, almost the same as their population.
People have this false idea of NZ being rural. Much of the land is, but in terms of population, like I said, 87% live in urban centres. It is a highly urban country, more so than most.
I don't know where you live but you have no idea. NZ did what the more successful nations have done; it stopped the spread of the disease through a lockdown, social distancing measures, testing and contact tracing. It has achieved elimination, which in epidemiological terms is zero community transmission. Most of its 22 deaths came in rest homes. New arrivals are quarantined until they test negative.
Although tourism is an important part of the economy the country isn't dependant upon it. It is an agricultural nation with a manufacturing base.
Every country faces an economic downturn during the pandemic. With life behind its borders back to near normal, NZ is coping as well as anywhere else - and, most importantly, with minimal loss of life. No country can safely open up when there is no vaccine and those that do suffer serious loss of life as well as economic recession.
Bulphroach wrote:Covid is everywhere. If you increase restrictions, it goes down. If you decrease restrictions, it goes up. Covid is here for good - it is not going anywhere. Everyone is deluded on this: Trump fans with their belief it will magically fade away, others with their belief it can be contained with testing and tracing, and still others with their especially deluded belief there will be a vaccine.
Especially deluded?! How could the belief there will be a vaccine be more deluded that the belief it will magically fade away?
KiwiG wrote:
NZ has not managed the crisis but they have managed to fool their population into thinking that they have. They closed their borders for 5 weeks. All that does is stop the virus from coming in for 5 weeks. Then what ? They open the borders and, surprise, the virus comes in again... How many tourists are going to waste their time travelling to the end of the earth, to sit in quarantine for 2 weeks ?
If people have to quarantine for 2 weeks upon entry, then opening up will not likely spread the virus.
People won't want to come for short visits, but doesn't this present other opportunities? If you were contemplating going to university in America or Europe, wouldn't it be worth seeing if you could go to NZ instead? You quarantine for 2 weeks and then it's a normal university experience.
Similarly older people (retired) and freelance workers might like the idea of a sabbatical in NZ.
International students could be championed but it is a limited market at the moment as the educational infrastructure would need to be drastically upgraded. But possible. NZ has placed all its eggs on short stay, high paying, Asian tourists. That market disappeared with a 14 day quarantine requirement. Some Europeans and Americans will come but they won’t be willing to pay the obscene prices that had become the normal. Not when they can get pretty much the same experience in their home regions. Primary industry, such as meat and dairy, has been declining for years, that is a global change. That won’t balance the books. NZ is my home and I want it to bounce back but the government really dropped the ball in not looking past a short term solution.
KiwiG wrote:
International students could be championed but it is a limited market at the moment as the educational infrastructure would need to be drastically upgraded. But possible. NZ has placed all its eggs on short stay, high paying, Asian tourists. That market disappeared with a 14 day quarantine requirement. Some Europeans and Americans will come but they won’t be willing to pay the obscene prices that had become the normal. Not when they can get pretty much the same experience in their home regions. Primary industry, such as meat and dairy, has been declining for years, that is a global change. That won’t balance the books. NZ is my home and I want it to bounce back but the government really dropped the ball in not looking past a short term solution.
So how are you going to open up to tourists and immigration without risking what's now happening in Victoria/Aus, where there are hundreds of new cases in the community every day and they are having to lockdown?
Tourism is an important export earner in NZ at 20% but that still leaves a 4/5 of its economy substantially intact.
When Covid is rampant in so many nations, there is no opening up the borders of a country like NZ, except an opening up to the virus. As arrivals of NZ nationals from overseas currently show, the rate of infection at the border is very high - hence quarantine. As Victoria also shows, there is no managing "just a little bit" of the virus; it is so contagious it can spread overnight from 1 or 2 cases in the community to hundreds each day, requiring a lockdown as the only response. The reality is that there can be no international tourism without a vaccine, or at least with countries that have eliminated the virus.
just some real thoughts wrote:
Covid is still a massive problem outside the US. Don't know where you're getting that impression from.
This. America's response to Covid 19 has been a joke. I'm not talking about Trump or the government, I'm talking about the citizens. Their country is too busy arguing with one another about whether or not coronavirus is even a legimate threat (seriously, it's been lile 6 months already, you guys are the only ones who can't seem to put it into perepective yet), complaining about about their freedoms, or just straight up not caring about the coronavrius pandemic. Then people want to say that the USA numbers are fake news or post links about why its bio terrorism against the USA? Hahahah, man.... I respect America and Americans more than most, but this whole situation is exposing their country for what it really is- a bunch of idiots who have been coasting off the success of previous hard-working generations. First site of hard times and they are crumbling