WTF: World Athletics proposes that cross country return to the 2024 Olympics as a mixed gender 4 x 2.5km race

Yeah ok I'd rather see nations duking it out over 10k 7on7, but this beats the heck out of nothing

the relay makes for more compelling tv. casual viewers care more about the team competition than a few random foreigners battle for medals. traditional cross country scoring is almost impossible to follow on tv, even if live scores could be somehow reported during the race via gps, trying to televise the 3rd 4th or 5th runners from multipke teams as they make moves is difficult to accomplish. most likely nobody would even know the results until the race is over and all the battles that actually matter to the scores would be missed. Watching the race would add no value on top of just reading the results afterwards. With a relay, the top 3-5 places are easy to televise live, viewers know the places at every point in the race, and viewers could actually see the place changes and see the battles that matter

I agree on that

ILLXC wrote:

Yeah ok I'd rather see nations duking it out over 10k 7on7, but this beats the heck out of nothing

The reason why there was barely any TV coverage and that the World Cross went to every other year is because you're in a very small minority.

Especially now we know exactly what the main reason is for the East African dominance.

That's just your opinion, man. This is far more compelling than sailing and there's nothing logical about putting it in the winter OG rather than the summer OG.

I saw yes with the event set up as follows:

-- on a combination of dirt and grass trails/parks.

-- no special grooming of the trail (allow water crossings, maybe some stump hoping, muddy paths, sandy section)

-- let the distance vary each Olympics from 12-15km

-- make each leg slightly difference distances (something like 3k, 4k, 4k, 3k; and maybe a shortest leg of at least 2k)

-- have the legs be different parts of a loop-style course (like a figure 8 with two runners running a section of the 8)

-- do not disclose the order of the legs until after the teams have been picked (pick a team and then decided how to best use who you have) (let the team have two alternates like the relays already allow)

-- let the team manager / coach decide in which order to run the runners the day before the event (like a line up being handed in before a baseball game)

Anyway, such an event would be a lot more interesting, and the fastest team may not necessarily win because it becomes an event about conditions and team management.

Gentleman Savage wrote:

That's just your opinion, man. This is far more compelling than sailing and there's nothing logical about putting it in the winter OG rather than the summer OG.

Besides that it's a winter sport for much of the world, not a summer sport.

why is this even posted wrote:

the relay makes for more compelling tv. casual viewers care more about the team competition than a few random foreigners battle for medals.

So it will be compelling tv when Kenya and Ethiopia are way out front and there are a pack of teams battling it for third with a bunch of athletes born in Kenya/Ethiopia? Or is this 2.5 k distance picked as they are once again tyring to limit African dominance?

Relays in swimming are compelling tv as they don't take very long. Here you are talking about nearly 30 minutes of running.

"The logical place for XC would be in the Winter Olympics."

No, that would be the illogical place for XC, because the winter games are reserved for sports that require a snow or ice surface to be played on: speed and figure skating, nordic and alpine skiing, ice hockey, curling, various sledding disciplines, etc.

I don't know why people have such a hard time grasping this, and why this meme about XC being in the Winter Games comes up again and again. If the season a sport is played in were the only criteria, then basketball and soccer might as well be in the Winter Games as well.

XC races sometimes take place in snowy conditions, and yes athletes can run on snow, but snow is not required for running. On the other hand, you couldn't hold a speed skating race in a grassy meadow.

I'd love to see XC back in the games, but the Summer Games is where they belong.

There were some pretty good Edinburgh cross country mixed relay races (4x1k), but they usually try to make some effort to even out the teams with stuff like a "European" team. I don't have anything against it in principle, I just don't want it to take away from other events.

rojo wrote:

why is this even posted wrote:

the relay makes for more compelling tv. casual viewers care more about the team competition than a few random foreigners battle for medals.

So it will be compelling tv when Kenya and Ethiopia are way out front and there are a pack of teams battling it for third with a bunch of athletes born in Kenya/Ethiopia? Or is this 2.5 k distance picked as they are once again tyring to limit African dominance?

Relays in swimming are compelling tv as they don't take very long. Here you are talking about nearly 30 minutes of running.

At least a relay is somewhat interesting. Especially if they can mix up the order so it gives the impression a lesser team is miles ahead when they run their men first.

Also, it gives other teams a decent chance of a medal given it's likely that at least one of the Kenyan 4 will test positive and get the whole team booted.

How about a XC snowshoeing race?

Baron Pierre de Indoortan wrote:

No, that would be the illogical place for XC, because the winter games are reserved for sports that require a snow or ice surface to be played on: speed and figure skating, nordic and alpine skiing, ice hockey, curling, various sledding disciplines, etc.

I don't know why people have such a hard time grasping this, and why this meme about XC being in the Winter Games comes up again and again.

What you don't grasp is the Winter Olympiad can add whatever sports it wants. It's not like someone will sue them if they include XC in the winter games.

perfectly logical wrote:

Gentleman Savage wrote:

That's just your opinion, man. This is far more compelling than sailing and there's nothing logical about putting it in the winter OG rather than the summer OG.

Besides that it's a winter sport for much of the world, not a summer sport.

Essentially nobody in the USA races xc in the winter. Ergo, it's just a quirk of the calendar. You don't see major marathons in the summer months outside the OG, either. So still nothing logical there.

Hardloper wrote:

Baron Pierre de Indoortan wrote:

No, that would be the illogical place for XC, because the winter games are reserved for sports that require a snow or ice surface to be played on: speed and figure skating, nordic and alpine skiing, ice hockey, curling, various sledding disciplines, etc.

I don't know why people have such a hard time grasping this, and why this meme about XC being in the Winter Games comes up again and again.

What you don't grasp is the Winter Olympiad can add whatever sports it wants. It's not like someone will sue them if they include XC in the winter games.

Silly rabbit, nobody would file suit because nobody has seriously proposed adding xc to the winter OG. Just a handful of wingnut dorks.

rojo wrote:

why is this even posted wrote:

the relay makes for more compelling tv. casual viewers care more about the team competition than a few random foreigners battle for medals.

So it will be compelling tv when Kenya and Ethiopia are way out front and there are a pack of teams battling it for third with a bunch of athletes born in Kenya/Ethiopia? Or is this 2.5 k distance picked as they are once again tyring to limit African dominance?

Relays in swimming are compelling tv as they don't take very long. Here you are talking about nearly 30 minutes of running.

I think world relays (or when bahamas upsetted Usa 4x4) demonstrated that one awful leg by a favorited team happens and can make it compelling. I'm not sure that any team would necessarily be way out in front, (would kenya and eithiopia both have 4 runners pace perfectly over the course of a 5k to ensure they are way out in front than say a great britain team or usa team?) and if they are, at least you get to watch a teams battling it out for third, which is pretty much impossible in traditional cross country scoring.

rojo wrote:

https://twitter.com/Lilot1TrackMind/status/1288888531566211073

I LOVE xc but put me in the NO category. A relay is simply not nearly as compelling as watching the best individual athletes go mano-a-mano. The team medal at world xc is not nearly as compelling as the individual medal. Plus 2.5 km is a joke distance.

If world xc is to return, it should a) go to the winter Olympics or b) replace the 5k of 10k in the summer Olympics. You could even have team scoring for a team medal.

But I personally think adding all of these sports/events is stupid. Stay with the classics. Personally xc was a classic and never should have left. But if you want to make running more popular, make it easier for people to double. Don't dilute competitions and make them less compelling by adding a ton of relays.

Anybody else confused by this?: “Each team would be composed of two men and two women. Each member of the teams would run two legs of the 2.5km course, alternating between male and female athletes as each athlete completes the 2.5 km course and hands over to a teammate.”

So that means each team has 4 members running 2 legs each, totaling 20km?

Take multiple legs by individual athletes out of it. It’s like for those mixed gender 2x2x400s—sure it’s cool to see if Brazier can run 2 49s with 55 seconds rest, but not as cool as seeing him run another 1:42. It’s a confounding variable that makes performances harder to contextualize. Also, I’d rather see them run 2k legs than 2.5k, if they’re already straying so far from traditional XC. That would really give teams like the U.S. and G.B. a fighting chance against East Africa, and 2k is less of a “joke distance” than 2.5k.

Or they could ditch the 10,000 and have a 10-12k conventional XC race with team & individual medalists, that’d be cool.

Gentleman Savage wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

What you don't grasp is the Winter Olympiad can add whatever sports it wants. It's not like someone will sue them if they include XC in the winter games.

Silly rabbit, nobody would file suit because nobody has seriously proposed adding xc to the winter OG. Just a handful of wingnut dorks.

World Athletics president Seb Coe has proposed it.

I know.