BRAZIER Confirmed for Monaco!!!

Deanouk
Do you ever tire of boosting Sebastian Coe? We know that Brazier might have faster shoes and a slightly faster track to race on. We know that Coe is the best middle distance runner of all time. We know that you are endlessly stimulated when watching videos of Coe in mid flight. We know that Coe was better than Rudisha and ElG. We know that nobody clean or even dirty can even compare with the pristine Coe. We know Coe is the gold standard when it comes to runners. Thanks for enlightening us and turning a Brazier thread again into one about Coe.

Yeah the straw man is high for Deanouk. Who here had proclaimed that all Brazier needed was a 1:41 to surpass Coe? Yet that was the main thrust of his post, refuting these non-existen people.

Who even cares about Coe in the context of 800m greatness at this point? No gold medals, a barely top-10 mark all time, and clearly surpassed in accolades and times by Kipketer and Rudisha. Those are the guys that Brazier should aspire to topple.

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Deanouk wrote:

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colorunner123 wrote:

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John Wesley Harding wrote:
Brazier has looked phenomenal in 2020, but it takes a phenomenal athlete to run 1:42.x, let alone the WR. My wager for Monaco is that he guns for 1:41 and fades to 1:42-high FTW, super impressive considering the circumstances of this season.

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He ran 1:42.34 last year at the World Championships after running in heats and semis. I think he is faster now. I predict mid 1:41, which will make him the #3 performer ever behind Rudisha and Kipketer.

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I think Brazier is a great runner and should break 1:42 one day, but athletes of his calibre train to be at a peak for the final of a champs, and take rounds into consideration. He was at a peak in Sept/Oct last year, just like Rudisha was in London 2012, running a time which he never bettered in many orchestrated paced race on the circuit. Also remember that Brazier had a purpose made rabbit running at near WR pace (from the start) to follow in Doha, which is rare in championship finals.
I don't know what the 'set up' is for the Monaco race! ? Are they going to have the lights on the inside set for the WR pace, as they did in Oslo (I think it was Oslo)? This is unfair I think, if the case.
You also have to consider that last year and for Monaco, Brazier will be wearing the latest carbon plated Nike spikes, which have been proven to be superior to those worn by Kipketer 20 years ago and certainly those used by Coe and Cruz when running their 1:41s. In addition the Doha and Monaco 'Mondo' tracks are notoriously fast, much faster than the synthetic tracks of 40 years ago.
If Brazier runs a 1:41 in Monaco next month then of course that will put him # 3 on the all time list, but with all the technical advantages (not his fault, obviously) he has at his disposal, it will not make his performance better than those of Coe or Cruz, who were better 800m runners at their peaks, in my opinion. I think he'd have to break 1:41 just to equal the 1:41.7's run on inferior tracks with inferior shoes, almost 40 years ago.

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Brazier is gonna be running on excitement, plus peak form.

I'd say he goes out in 49-low and pops a 1:41.95.

Deano, you are making too many assumptions. You don't know the shoe Brazier is wearing and he won the World Championship, something Coe never could pull off in '83, '85, or '87, in normal spikes.

I think Brazier could run 1:40 barefoot. With him it's about his form and power. He is a stallion like Juantorena, not a science experiment like Coe. Remember, Coe's 1:41 had suspect timing on a track they have since destroyed because it was considered like Stanford's track back in the day.

I've seen enough track and field in my time to know that Brazier is the real deal. I think he will threaten the WR quickly and needs to race as much as Rudisha did to refine his skill and sensations over the last 150m when running though 600m in 1:14 or so.

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Deanouk wrote:

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Star wrote:
1:41 has been run July 10 or earlier by four different people. Rushisha, Kipketer, Coe and Amos.
Rudisha did it three times himself.
His world record in London was August, not Sep/Oct.

When you look at the PRs of 1:42 runners, the dates they did it are all over the place.
Peter Elliott ran 1:42 in May.

And having no championship this year is even more incentive to not worry about timing your peak fitness for later in the season.

There is plenty of evidence he could run really fast Aug 14.

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I don't think you've got the point I was making!

Firstly, I was referring to Brazier's World Champs victory last year when mentioning Sept/Oct. Nothing to do with Rudisha!

Secondly, I was responding to a poster who implied that Brazier would automatically be faster now in a one off timed race than after rounds in a Championship final. I was suggesting that this isn't necessarily the case, citing Rudisha as an example, and that sometimes, when the pace is given in a final, you can run faster in a championship race because you tend to be at a season peak.

Thirdly, Elliott's 1:42.97 was basically a 1:43, abd I know Brazier is capable of faster than that.

In summary, I think Brazier is capable of a pb in Monaco, but a 1:41 performance now (2020) is not quite as impressive as a 1:41 from 40 years ago, when they were running on inferior tracks with inferior shoes.

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Killerr wrote:
Deanouk
Do you ever tire of boosting Sebastian Coe? We know that Brazier might have faster shoes and a slightly faster track to race on. We know that Coe is the best middle distance runner of all time. We know that you are endlessly stimulated when watching videos of Coe in mid flight. We know that Coe was better than Rudisha and ElG. We know that nobody clean or even dirty can even compare with the pristine Coe. We know Coe is the gold standard when it comes to runners. Thanks for enlightening us and turning a Brazier thread again into one about Coe.

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Sapel wrote:
You don't know the shoe Brazier is wearing and he won the World Championship, something Coe never could pull off in '83, '85, or '87, in normal spikes.

I think Brazier could run 1:40 barefoot.

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Coevett wrote:
Does anyone know what kind of shape Amos is claiming to be in, or if he is even running?

I guess ex-runner might..

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There is no such thing as peaking

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donut nut wrote:
Here are the restriction for Monaco only. Seems like you can get in with a negative COVID test.

http://monacodc.org/covid19.html

I don't know how this all works with flight connections.

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Who would prevail in a 600 meter race?

Warholm or Brazier?

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letsrunfortrump wrote:
There is no such thing as peaking

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I'm actually traveling right past Monaco a few days before. So mad I'm gonna miss this meet :(

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Whodunit wrote:
Who would prevail in a 600 meter race?

Warholm or Brazier?

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Brazier had a fast pacer in the World's finals, too fast a pacer! Going out in 23's not helpful. Very few have run pr's in world or Olympic finals other than London 2012. Brazier rose much faster than Coe to heights on much less training. Coe had been trained for years and years before he became great. Brazier ran 1:43.55 as a freshman in college to break Jim Ryun's NCAA record by half a second. He struggled for a while, then came back really good the past couple years. 1:42.34 is a great time and he was not challenged the last 300m. At his age, there's every possibility of breaking 1:42 multiple times. No idea on his spikes but he wasn't using the questionable spikes at Doha to my knowledge. Coe did not focus on the 800m and so had fewer quality 800s since he was running 1k and 1500m and mile as well. There's no a priori reason to give against Brazier running low 1:41 at some point. Brazier has equivalent 400m speed, maybe better. His 1500m form looks to be very, very strong, but unfortunately we may not see him attempt a fast paced 1500m. Should be fun.

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zxcvzxcv wrote:
Brazier had a fast pacer in the World's finals, too fast a pacer! Going out in 23's not helpful. Very few have run pr's in world or Olympic finals other than London 2012. Brazier rose much faster than Coe to heights on much less training. Coe had been trained for years and years before he became great. Brazier ran 1:43.55 as a freshman in college to break Jim Ryun's NCAA record by half a second. He struggled for a while, then came back really good the past couple years. 1:42.34 is a great time and he was not challenged the last 300m. At his age, there's every possibility of breaking 1:42 multiple times. No idea on his spikes but he wasn't using the questionable spikes at Doha to my knowledge. Coe did not focus on the 800m and so had fewer quality 800s since he was running 1k and 1500m and mile as well. There's no a priori reason to give against Brazier running low 1:41 at some point. Brazier has equivalent 400m speed, maybe better. His 1500m form looks to be very, very strong, but unfortunately we may not see him attempt a fast paced 1500m. Should be fun.

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I’ll give Brazier 1:41.13. I definitely think he’ll break 1:42. Just my prediction. I’m excited to see this!!!

Is Holloway the best T&F athlete in the world? The guy wins the 110hs. Could compete in any sprint event. Can run 44 seconds as part of the 4x4 relay team. Can long jump 27 feet. If trained as a decathlete from the start we may be looking at the best ever.

Also cleared 2.16m in the high jump in 2014. So yes up to 400, running and hurdling. Can jump horizontally and vertically. No idea on the Throws, but he is not in the super-skinny mold (listed at 6'2, 190).