SUB 3H marathon running twice a week?

The Intelligence wrote:

The Intelligence wrote:

...68km (i.e., 42 mi) per week at an average pace of 4:16/km (6:52/mile, race pace training)...

Consider, per Tanda, the time of recovery between the training sessions are of little consequence to the above prescription. Thus, it is conceivable that one could run all of the weekly miles, for example, at just quarter-mile repetitions, with full recovery between repetitions.

Consider the possibilities, then. Conceivably, per Tanda, in the 8-week training block prior to a 3 hr marathon, one could run 24x400m @ 6:52/mile pace each-day-of-the-week, or 28x400m @ 6:52/mile pace on six days of the week with one-day-per-week rest.

If one were to jog/walk for ~3 minutes between reps in order to recover the HR below 120 bpm, the daily 24x400m session, including warmup, could be completed in less than 2 hours.

I'll report as I progress with my training.

2x-week wrote:

I'm not lazy. I have peroneal tendonitis injury that prevents me from running more than twice a week. I have 12 weeks to train for an upcoming marathon. Fully trained I could run 2:40. But since I can't run 5-6 times per week, my goal is to barely break the sub 3h limit.

Since this is a rather unusual approach, how would you structure these two runs each week?.

Skimming through previous replies, seems a few people have the right idea. A long run every other week is probably key. "The Intelligence's" Tanda paces seem too fast, but I believe it's true that you'll need to average marathon pace or faster for at least half your mileage (figuring about 25 total mpw).

Like you, I had a 2:40 best as a youth, running 5-7 days a week, 42 mpw average. At age 57, unwilling to run more than a couple days a week, I was still able to run 3:25, which age-grades to 2:52.

I trained for 12 weeks. Marathon pace was 7:52 per mile, and most of my shorter and medium-long runs were about that pace. Long runs were easy-pace. (8:30-9:00). Two weeks out, I ran 15 miles at 7:30/mile.

A typical two-week pattern:

10-12 miles, off, 20-mile bike, off, 12-16 miles, off, off;

10-12 miles, off, 20-mile bike, off, 18-22 miles, off, off.

I'll add that the following year at age 58, I ran 3:07 by running 5-6 days a week, 42 mpw average. That age grades to 2:36. But I had a lot of injury issues. Now at 61, I'm back to just 3 days a week. Good luck.

In my late 40s, I started doing some trail races from 13 to 18 miles long. I would mix in road races about the same length. After racing on saturday, I would need until wednesday to do another run so I would run 12 to 15 miles. For about 4 months I just ran those two days a week averaging close to 30 miles on the two runs. I ran a 30k road race at 6:45 pace in humid conditions and won a 16 mile trail race in just under 2 hours. The past runners that ran the same time were right around 3 hours for the marathon.

Basically both runs have to end up around marathon pace. If you do a longer run like 22 miles at a slower pace, you could run a fast 10 or 12 miles the other day faster than marathon pace.

I saw some of my 15 mile runs ended up a little over 7 minute pace. I also raced a 10 mile in 65 minutes.

Great thread

Week 1

Starting off gentle. Today I did one hour stationary bike (concept 2) and while I was doing it I noticed that it kills my thighs even at the lowest resistence. I was doing 80 RPM (2:30/1000m pace)

Any advice what I should do?

This is my plan for this week's running

#1 Thu: 60 min alternating between 1 km @M or slightly faster and 1 km easy

#2 Sun: Long run 105 min easy

Its not a question of talent. I have no doubt you have talent if you're a 2:40 marathoner, but without consistent training you won't have the endurance to do it. You can under-train and phone in a decent mile or 5k with talent, but once you start getting past an hour in race time the only thing that matters is how big your aerobic engine is. Talent doesn't mean anything once you run out of glycogen. Without some serious time on the bike and in the pool, I don't see this happening.

Also, if you think you're going to run two huge runs on those days and be fine you are mistaken. If running more than twice a week leaves you hurt then two 15-16 milers a week will almost certainly shattered to pieces.

Update.

First week went well. The 1K on/off were done in terrible wind, all between 4:10-4:15/km.

Due to lack of time on Sunday I had to shorten my planned long run and did only 12 km with last 4 km at faster pace 4:09-4:09-4:04-3:59.

Today I did a progressive run of 60 min (total time was 95 min, including jogging back home). It was very warm, 78.8°F and a bit windy. I did my slower pace around 4:30-4:40/km. Then as can be seen from the link below, last 5 km varying between 4:04-4:12.

https://ibb.co/PZPNpbQ

So far so good.

The Intelligence wrote:

In order to break 3h, either of the following mileage-volumes and their respective average paces are prescribed for the eight weeks of training prior to the marathon. [Per Tanda.]:

(1) 37km (i.e., 23.1mi) per week at an average pace of 3:45/km (6:02/mile);

(2) 68km (i.e., 42 mi) per week at an average pace of 4:16/km (6:52/mile, race pace training);

(3) 70km (i.e., 43.8mi) per week at an average pace of 4:18/km (6:55/mile);

(4) 100km (i.e., 62.5mi) per week at an average pace of 4:44/km (7:37/mile);

(5) 161km (i.e., 100mi) per week at an average pace of 5:25/km (8:43/mile).

Consider, per Tanda, the time of recovery between the training sessions are of little consequence to the above prescription. Thus, it is conceivable that one could run all of the weekly miles, for example, at just quarter-mile repetitions, with full recovery between repetitions.

True but this will take double the time to include the recovery time as well.

17km / day at 5 min/km is achievable on single runs and double runs (10 + 7). The question is which one is better?

Any update forbiddenshoes?

Hi ! I would be interested to know how it went in the end ! I'm training for a 3h15 marathon 2x/week as I am cross-training significantly but this a first for me (always stuck to > 4x/week plan in the past).

Of course it never worked.

You actually have to train for a sub 3 hour marathon and so should you for your 3:15.

Did you try ? My marathon is in 4 weeks, I'll keep you posted regarding the outcome !

If you've got a bad injury then two hard runs a week will make it worse, especially if one of them is 22 miles lol. You would be better off running more days and splitting the mileage up or just not running at all.

Please do! I wish the OP from last year had continued with updates.

Earlier in this thread I outlined my experience at age 57, running only two or three days per week. Now at 62, I am planning a May marathon, again running three days per week (limited by severe tendinitis). Goal is 3:30, which is an age-graded "equivalent" to 2:47.

That may be over-ambitious. I'll be happy with 3:45.

Regarding the OP, even without cross-training, sub-3 would have been doable. With biking on off days, almost certain.

So the problem is that you have an injury that prevents you from doing much volume, and you want to train for a marathon? Wonder how you got injured...

Looking forward to know how it goes @Allen1959 !

@Doctor Oz, in my case, I am not injured, I am just cycling and climbing in addition of running, more so than previous years, so I can't run more than 2-3x/week without being exhausted !

Doc, thanks for the feedback.

It's not so much an injury; more a "condition." Bone spurs on my knee caps cause constant irritation and inflammation to my quadraceps tendons. Also calcification of the tendons adds to the problem.

The pain is constant, and not much worse running only three times per week versus not running at all. Back-to-back days do make it much worse, so I never run consecutive days.

My son is running his first marathon in May, and he paid my entry to run with him. One last hurrah. My days may be limited, anyway; biopsy results next week. Both my brother and my father died within a year if their cancer diagnoses. So, what the heck! :)

By the way, the same 2-3 days per week training approach at age 57 actually kept me healthy: 3:26 marathon, negative splits. Higher mileage at 58 netted 3:07, but the then-indiagnosed knee condition was already interrupting my training.

Ah in that case go for it! I was responding to OP who I now realize wrote this thread a couple years ago (my bad!)

Your approach receives my full blessing :)

Especially because I believe that training should be what you want it to be. Like if a certain race outcome or time goal isn't a huge idea, I don't see the reason to do away with less-specific training activities that are fun for you!