SUB 3H marathon running twice a week?

thats... uh... not gonna happen... 3H is no joke. If ur at 2:40 running full time cutting down to 2 days is gonna make that a very very difficult task if not impossible unless ur some untapped god

What are you doing the other five days?

Justuraverage16flatboy wrote:

thats... uh... not gonna happen... 3H is no joke. If ur at 2:40 running full time cutting down to 2 days is gonna make that a very very difficult task if not impossible unless ur some untapped god

I believe in my ability. I have more talent than other people and when I presented the idea to some of my runner buddies they thought I could pull it off. For sub 3h, an average male needs to run 70 km/week. I can achieve the same goal with 35-40 km/week. I don't want to sound cocky, I just wanted some input on what runs you guys would do if you were in my position.

I might do some cycling indoors.

Train as if you were training for an Ironman. I think that's the closest thing to what you are looking for.

Nutsack McGee wrote:

Train as if you were training for an Ironman. I think that's the closest thing to what you are looking for.

This if you have a place to swim right now.

Do you have access to an Alter-G or ElliptiGO?

I tried exactly this for a marathon earlier this year (it would have been my first) although I would sometimes run 3x/week. In a typical week I would do a long run and one workout of some sort, then the rest of the week did a bunch of cycling. If I did another run it would be an easy treadmill run of 8ish miles or if I felt real good I'd do a second workout.

The race was cancelled so I never discovered how well it worked. I was hitting all the workout times indicative of a <3:00 marathon according to VDOT but the long runs (I did up to 22 miles) were pretty hard. I would usually try to do a few miles in the middle and a few more near the end at ~3:00 pace and while I could do it, it was real hard.

If you already had 2:40 fitness I think this would work well but for me I think I probably woulhave struggled to break 3:00 in an actual race.

Chances are you will get hurt but if I HAD TO RUN only 2X per week my 2 runs would be:

1. Long Run / working up to 22 miles

First 2/3 of the LR would be around 7:30-7:45 pace (your goal pace is 6:52) with the last 1/3 at goal MP pace

2. Weekly tempo run / 2 easy / 6 at 6:10 pace / 2 easy

Run 2hr every run. Start easy, close harder. You will get there.

It makes sense that 3 hours of running would be more specific training, but just do what you can given your injury. Sometimes I find I can still do mile intervals when continuous mileage is too much. 3 hours of walking and running would be better than nothing.

2x-week wrote:

For sub 3h, an average male needs to run 70 km/week.

That is IF the average pace of all those 70km is 4:18/km (6:55/mile). [Per Tanda.]

I can achieve the same goal with 35-40 km/week.

That is IF the average pace of all those 37km is 3:45/km (6:02/mile). [Per Tanda.]

It can be done if you are doing Ironman style training. One long run and one quality run at least an hour long. Bike 200-300 miles a week and swim 15-20k. Not ideal but very do able for someone with 2:40 fitness.

I did this, about 20 years ago (mid-30s), 2:49 for first marathon. Build up around the long run, every other weekend (10,12,14,etc., with about 4 runs in the 20-23 range, last one 3 weeks prior to raceday). Then 10 mi tempo the other weekends. Mid-week, a mixture of hills and the occasional mile repeats. Generally pretty hard efforts. I did my long runs a little faster than the standard formula says (about 7:00 pace usually).

Then fill out the rest of the week with cross-training. I did stationary bike and Concept 2 rower. Lots of steady threshold type work, generally 45-60 minutes. Maybe 1 day off per week.

My background was adult hobby runner, no sports in school, modest talent level.

If you have an ongoing injury i'd get that sorted first, then train properly for the next race.

I would say that 100kpw is the average needed for sub 3h, not 70.

Have you done decent mileage in the past?

We need to know what is your experience because talent is not enough for the marathon.

I would say it is possible if you have been running more recently and if you do a lot of cycling in addition to your 2 weekly runs.

I would do 2 longish runs every week 1h30-2h. One steady or progressive and the other with some marathon pace or Lactate threshold intervals.

Impala31 wrote:

I would say that 100kpw is the average needed for sub 3h...

That is IF the average pace of all those 100km is 4:44/km (7:37/mile). [Per Tanda.]

For sub 3h, an average male needs to run 70 km/week.

That is IF the average pace of all those 70km (i.e., 43.8mi) is 4:18/km (6:55/mile). [Per Tanda.]

I can achieve the same goal with 35-40 km/week.

That is IF the average pace of all those 37km (i.e., 23.1mi) is 3:45/km (6:02/mile). [Per Tanda.]

I would say that 100kpw is the average needed for sub 3h...

That is IF the average pace of all those 100km (i.e., 62.5mi) is 4:44/km (7:37/mile). [Per Tanda.]

Some might say one should try and run 100 miles/week to run a good marathon. When running 100 miles/week, in order to break 3hr, the average pace of ALL those 100 miles needs to be 8:43/mile. [Per Tanda.]

For sub 3h, an average male needs to run 70 km/week.

That is IF the average pace of all those 70km (i.e., 43.8mi) is 4:18/km (6:55/mile). [Per Tanda.]

I can achieve the same goal with 35-40 km/week.

That is IF the average pace of all those 37km (i.e., 23.1mi) is 3:45/km (6:02/mile). [Per Tanda.]

I would say that 100kpw is the average needed for sub 3h...

That is IF the average pace of all those 100km (i.e., 62.5mi) is 4:44/km (7:37/mile). [Per Tanda.]

Some might say one should try and run 100 miles/week to run a good marathon.

When running 100 miles/week, in order to break 3hr, the average pace of ALL those 100 miles needs to be 8:43/mile. [Per Tanda.]

One may wish to entertain the idea of training only at race-pace for the purposes of efficient-specificity-neuromuscular-training. The question then, is how many miles per week must one run @ 6:52/mile pace in order to break 3hr in the marathon (i.e., 6:52/mile race pace)?

The answer is 42 miles, whereby all of those 42 miles are run at an average pace of 6:52/mile. [Per Tanda.]

In order to break 3h, either of the following mileage-volumes and their respective average paces are prescribed for the eight weeks of training prior to the marathon. [Per Tanda.]:

(1) 37km (i.e., 23.1mi) per week at an average pace of 3:45/km (6:02/mile);

(2) 68km (i.e., 42 mi) per week at an average pace of 4:16/km (6:52/mile, race pace training);

(3) 70km (i.e., 43.8mi) per week at an average pace of 4:18/km (6:55/mile);

(4) 100km (i.e., 62.5mi) per week at an average pace of 4:44/km (7:37/mile);

(5) 161km (i.e., 100mi) per week at an average pace of 5:25/km (8:43/mile).

Consider, per Tanda, the time of recovery between the training sessions are of little consequence to the above prescription. Thus, it is conceivable that one could run all of the weekly miles, for example, at just quarter-mile repetitions, with full recovery between repetitions.