Third input Catholic gal wrote:
These times are obviously a joke, albeit a good one, as one would expect in the absence of real racing and testing. Hard to say exactly how much pharma and magic shoes take off, but neither of these women could run 14:45 clean and in pre-2019 footwear.
+1
Nice attempt
Terrible troll attempt considering Shelby is literally wearing spikes from like 2012. You really gotta work on your trolling.
Hey guys here is a full recap of the race
any run from the usa has to be seen with suspicion. After all there is basically no testing now and even before any us athletes is let off when violating the rules. I only have to mention several violations being there for testing like coleman and thomas, accepted excuses like kissing and having sex with your partner that takes forbidden drugs and outright claiming beef contaminations. all together beasically no us athlete is banned for doping. So having several dopers in any american group is a given
urmom wrote:
Terrible troll attempt considering Shelby is literally wearing spikes from like 2012. You really gotta work on your trolling.
For one thing, you don't know that. You have no idea what was really on her feet other than the packaging, unless you're her or maybe her pharmacist.
Still, let's say buy that. if I were her and her squad, I'd be pushing the idea that the shoes were actually a significant factor, because to deny this just makes the doping more obvious.
Are people really supposed to believe that someone who was already training as hard as the Mizzou chick was by the end of college has really improved by close to a minute in two years?
I'm not even saying that the doping and magical shoes are bad, since Americans obviously need them to be competitive with genetically superior people worldwide who are also doping. And these two could obviously still break 15:00 clean and in standard footwear available to others (maybe), so it's not like these times are 100% illegitimate. But you'll all feel less ashamed of yourselves in a few years if you own up to the fact that at this level, clean sport is a myth.
I can’t speak for other athletes but I know every Bowerman athlete was drug tested at their altitude camp some of them multiple times. I think Shelby was tested twice. Also I work with triathletes and Lionel sanders has been tested 2x since may. Hope this helps
Just watched the replay. Houlihan has really smooth form, it's impressive
Really good pacing throughout too
Bro... Shelby is LITERALLY wearing the old Victory’s. Are you blind??? She has repeatedly expressed a preference for it, just like how Ches always wanted the OG Vics. Some people just REALLY like a certain spike or flat. I think even Mo Farah preferred the OGs
Enough with the time trials and have a match race Bowerman Babes vs. Team Boss vs Purrier vs Cain vs Tuohy and throw in Sifan , KoKo, Obiri & Dibaba
Yeah, she's wearing old Victories. She said once in an interview that her stride is fairly bouncy, so she doesn't like the new ones.
Cain and Tuohy would have been lapped.
the letter why wrote:
[quote]Ozzie wrote:
[quote]the letter why wrote:
[quote]jabouk wrote:
I don’t want to come across as knocking Houlihan which would be nuts. And clearly she has made some improvements over the past few years. My point is that this ‘race’ does NOT indicate anything we didn’t already know! She was probably capable of running this fast last year.
Ahmed is a good example - he clearly had a breakthrough year last year, but only ran 12:58. However, he medaled against the Ethiopians and had a few other moments that indicated he was a medal contender (obviously). 12:47 in a time trial is shocking, but it makes sense.
Another example - Schweizer actually has made a big jump recently. But she’s not 20 seconds better than last year - she ran 14:45 or whatever in much less ideal circumstances and wasn’t close to medaling. Is she closer now? Sure, but all of the gold medal contenders are capable of threatening the world record, and these two are not there.
I see where you're coming from and I would not call Houlihan the favorite, but her time was #12 all-time. I think 7 of the women with faster PR's are still racing. 4 of those active women, including Sifan Hassan, have PR's that are over 14:20. Houlihan's PR is less than 2 seconds behind Sifan Hassan. Genzebe Dibaba is the only woman who is significantly faster with the same type of finishing speed and she has not been at that level during every championship season. Almaz Ayana was not healthy last year for the world championships either. Hellen Obiri is the favorite in the event, but I think someone who has a PR of 14:23 and world-class closing speed in the 1500m has to be considered a contender in the 5k. Maybe we are just operating under different definitions of contender.
A 3:54 runner obviously has 14:20s ability with the kind of training Bowerman Track Club does. Shelby just ran 4:02, though, so what would she run if she were in 3:54 shape? They took a 15 athlete in Schweizer, trained her to 14:45 last year, and she just ran 14:26. What could Jerry do with a 14:20s college guy? I mean, she was as fast as a solid conference-level D3 guy in college and now she's as good as a typical D1 guy. That training group is just incredible right now.
As for 12:47 for Mo Ahmed, that's what you expect for a 5000m medalist in a time trial, but it also suggests that the top guys can challenge Bekele. Ahmed had a 12:58 pr and hadn't been challenging in DL races before World's.
Letsenbet Gidey, who medaled at World's and ran the world best at 15k or something like that, is going to be a favorite for medals, along with Hassan, Obiri, and probably G. Dibaba. But with her finishing speed and new strength Houlihan should be a contender for a lesser medal. I knew that she was better than 14:34, both because she ran that a year before 3:54 and because her pacer in that race, Shalane Flanagan, led her to 3k too slowly for a true breakthrough. But this is some rare territory, especially when you consider that she closed in something like 4:26 for 1600m and 61 for 400m. That indicates mid 14:teens ability.
From watching the women's race, I just have to remark at Shelby Houlihan's incredibly efficient, powerful running form. She looked like she was running just very easy to 1200m and she had plenty left. She has a good forward lean and wastes no motion and the fact it is so easy for her to run 70s means that she has a great deal in the tank for the kick. Tremendous acceleration at 4800m. They were running 14:37 pace and then finished in 14:23. Obviously, she can run considerably faster with pacers going 14:20s pace.
Schweizer must just have an incredible engine (heart/lungs), because she has this overly backward lean, a really bouncy cadence, and arms all over the place. She still needs more ab and muscle strengthening work, so it is just remarkable that she is already down to 14:26. The speed isn't enough to win or contend in world championships, a little like Klosterhalfen, but the latter has 1:59.65 speed. I have to think that she will continue to improve with Houlihan and the others as her training partners. Her 800m pr is 2:09.42 from 2016, and that was itself a pr by three seconds. Until this year, her 1500m pr was just 4:06. Now it's just 4:02. She'll surely break 4 soon. In 2018, she had pr's of 15:02/32:00. Just remarkable progression. With this team, I accept it.
dullard wrote:
I guess this is what happens when doping control becomes lax during a pandemic.
If you are doping, the smart thing to do right is lay low. Do you agree?
still believe ... wrote:
jabouk wrote:
14.23!
I still believe S. Houlihan needs to focus on 1500m. She is strong and has some speed. S. Houlihan has a better opportunity to medal at 1500m than 5000m at Olympics or W.C. A flatlander from Iowa does not need to race against those who have lived at altitude for hundred generations, 5000m.
A (14:24) 5Ker with (3:54) 1500 speed is a definitely a 5K medal contender.
Agree 100 percent - there is no way two women on the same team on the same day are faster than every American ever. I’m going to be nice and claim shoes - and I do believe that’s a lot for these prs - maybe houihan is legit but the jump In others performances says there is something going on