Donavan brazier knows 800m secret

That’s the accepted ideology for 800m training.nothing new

Yeah, the secret is being the greatest middle distance talent since Ryun. Ran 1:48.6 off a negative split as a 17 yr old HS jr. 1:48.07 off of a 55.2 first lap as a senior after running a 1:52 4x8 leg earlier that day. 45.92 FAT relay split.

Then add in the natural aerobic ability—finishing within 30 seconds of Fisher in cross off of very low mileage.

Yeah the emphasis on high mileage is dumb.

But also, Brazier is a perfect specimen for the 800.

Just like Rudisha, but slower 4 and faster 15 and thus 1.5 secs slower.

He could continue running fast one off times if he kept his volume the same as it was in high school and college. The problem comes in the Olympics or else where when there are rounds. Which means building up ones strength to last through the rounds. This was his problem in college. He could run fast times, but by time it came for the final there was nothing left in the tank. Since joining NOP, they have obviously solved this i.e. look at his gold in the 800 at the last world championships.

Who said that speed work wast important for 800?

Obviously it is a staple of 800 training. But aerobic condition is a important also if you want to run a good 2nd lap.

Both low mileage and high mileage can lead to success in 800m but in both case you need a lot of speed work.

For the 1500 there is no low mileage secret. He needs more mileage if he wants to become great at it.

ienjoyracing wrote:

I think speed work is necessary to increase aerobic power because all of a sudden you are running at such a lower percentage of your max speed that you need significantly less oxygen to fuel that pace, and that improvement is worth more than the in oxygen consumption you will get from 80 mile weeks. But that’s just me.

Fast workouts are necessary to increase aerobic power because aerobic power is maximal when anaerobic power is also near maximum. Not during a long run. Why do people think a 10 miler is a hard aerobic effort?

Impala31 wrote:

Who said that speed work wast important for 800?

Obviously it is a staple of 800 training. But aerobic condition is a important also if you want to run a good 2nd lap.

Both low mileage and high mileage can lead to success in 800m but in both case you need a lot of speed work.

For the 1500 there is no low mileage secret. He needs more mileage if he wants to become great at it.

Here me out, what if every body else needs low mileage to be great at the 1500. I can’t tell if I’m being stupid or not, but maybe the reason he’s so good at 1500 when his training seems so poor for it, is because his training is actually great for it. That or he’s the greatest miler of all time whos in the wrong event.

He is not good at 1500 compared to 800...

1.42 low is equal to 3'29 low. And he only runs 3'35. Which is logic with his training.

With 1500 training he definitely could be a ~3'30 /3'31 1500 guy I think. Which is far for being the GOAT

Remember Brazier's coach in his formative years at Texas A&M was 400m specialist and Olympian for Grenada, Alleyne Francique. Francique's sprint mechanics and background laid the foundation for Brazier to transition that power to what you see today.

behind the wall of sleep wrote:

He could continue running fast one off times if he kept his volume the same as it was in high school and college. The problem comes in the Olympics or else where when there are rounds. Which means building up ones strength to last through the rounds. This was his problem in college. He could run fast times, but by time it came for the final there was nothing left in the tank. Since joining NOP, they have obviously solved this i.e. look at his gold in the 800 at the last world championships.

There are other ways to become aerobically stronger besides just running high mileage. Your sentence at the end regarding his new training with the NOP shows that he doesn’t need the mileage and that Julian has figured out how to make him stronger without it.

It`s like I "preach" here all the time . There must be a perfect mix of speed and mileage, and just

enough what it takes to improve. Donavan runs his easy aerobic power runs at his exact best

individual pace and that is a very smart way to go.

Impala31 wrote:

He is not good at 1500 compared to 800...

1.42 low is equal to 3'29 low. And he only runs 3'35. Which is logic with his training.

With 1500 training he definitely could be a ~3'30 /3'31 1500 guy I think. Which is far for being the GOAT

Did you see his "TT" at 1500? He was just playing around and finished fast to a 3:35!!

The guy does perfect 800 training........and 1500/mile training!!

Wow. You might almost think that different things work for different people.

You might almost think that coaches train athletes and not events.

Brazier is obviously a freak of nature. You could probably throw almost any 800M training program at him and he'd run fast.

800m training is a balance between developing aerobic and anaerobic power. You need to have a strong base in both. For championship events, I think having a more mileage based training program is more important. Winning a world championship means running three hard heats. Being able to run a fast first round 800M aerobically without spiking lactate will give you a competitive advantage in the final.

lease wrote:

Wow. You might almost think that different things work for different people.

You might almost think that coaches train athletes and not events.

Correct. Some athletes run their fastest off far more volume and others far less. No one size fits all.

I don't know why people think Coe ran low miles. He states big numbers in his book all over the place. That is where a lot of this fascination with 'low mileage' middle distance came from.

Rudisha didn't need high mileage, he worked on specific endurance to take his speed as far as possible. But I bet his volume+intensity was way too much for most to handle.

Brazier had the base in high school as well as good speed, which allowed him to run those big negative split 1:47/48 races. In college, he was not asked to do xc and didn't work on his base, but they really gave him the hard speedwork and he ran 1:43.55. However, he lacked the strength or tactics for rounds. What Julian has helped him with is to be strong on tactics--to really understand what he's doing out there--and he has been him even greater by adding a lot more aerobic work, something between 800 and mile training. He's still doing low mileage but not as low as before. And he finished that 3:35 in 52.13, so it was nearly a jog to 1100 and he only really picked up at 1200-1250. That obviously indicates 3:30-31 current ability or better.

ex-runner wrote:

lease wrote:

Wow. You might almost think that different things work for different people.

You might almost think that coaches train athletes and not events.

Correct. Some athletes run their fastest off far more volume and others far less. No one size fits all.

I don't know why people think Coe ran low miles. He states big numbers in his book all over the place. That is where a lot of this fascination with 'low mileage' middle distance came from.

Rudisha didn't need high mileage, he worked on specific endurance to take his speed as far as possible. But I bet his volume+intensity was way too much for most to handle.

Low mileage 800 metre training did not start with Sebastian Coe & Peter Coe. John Woodruff, USA, 800m gold medal, 1936 Olympics, 440 yard dash personal best, 47.0, Malvin Whitfield, USA, 800m gold medal, 1948 & 1952 Olympics, 400 metre dash personal best, 45.9 & Tom Courtney, USA, 800m, gold medal, 1956 Olympics, 400 metre dash personal best, 45.8. All three men raced on cinder/dirt tracks with heavy shoes.

Early to mid-1970s, S. Coe was doing higher mileage training with strict periodization. Lydiard-type training. Sometime in mid-1970s, Peter Coe got S. Coe away from Lydiard-type training. Peter Coe took over S. Coe's training and trained S. Coe with lower mileage, cross-training and not as strict periodization training, some speed work & anaerobic training year around.

S. Coe was a low mileage athlete in late 1979 when he set those world records. S. Coe was a low mileage athlete at 1980 Olympics. Ask S. Coe yourself when S. Coe officially switched from an athlete who trained for 800m but also raced events 1500m and longer to an athlete who trained for 1500m/one mile and also raced 800m. Was it 1983? Was it early 1984? S. Coe & Peter Coe did not invent low mileage 800m training. Peter Coe never claimed to invent low mileage 800m training. Peter Coe believed S. Coe's best event was 800m and Peter Coe knew S. Coe was not going to maximize his 800m potential on higher mileage Lydiard training.

A very good comment! :) And there was a guy with the name of Rudolf Harbig coached by the famous Woldemar Gerschler back in the -30s .........World records at both 400 and 800 with 46.0 and 1:46.6 . The only male runner in history holding both world records. He also ran a WR at 1000m at 2:21:5 ........a low mileage runner.

It is a good year for Donovan to experiment by running a 1500m. Also very true speedwork is essential but the endurance to not fall apart the last 300m of the 800m endurance training could help immensely. I hope he takes a shot at a fast 800m this September or October