Was Ben Johnson the 100 G.O.A.T.?

loooool man you are delusional about this stuff.

“Put him on a modern program and he’s there” means nothing unless there is the 9.7s.

You understand Bolt ran NINE POINT FIVE EIGHT right? This is not a close thing. This is not a drugs put someone over the edge thing. This is a difference of more than two tenths. It took the record over 30 years to move from 10.0ish to 9.80ish (67 to 99). Bolt ran a time eleven years ago that is still more than a tenth better than anyone else ever. This is not hard to understand.

"Christophe Lemaitre would run 9.5 if he doped" is one of the best trolls I've ever read on this board.

Thought I would resurrect this old thread with a YT vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEWIyfy43KY

Watch the slow-mo start at 1:47, and you will understand more what I have been trying to illustrate here for many years: the best starters, for an instant after the gun sounds, push with both feet at the same time, before releasing the sub-dominant leg first. You can see the same thing with CC. Also try watching it at 0.5 and 0.25 speed, to see what I mean.

When you get it, it's great. I used to do this, right there, right in that lane. Very few guys can get it, but if you do, you are the king to 5 or 10m.

Those scenes bring back memories! LMAO the hurdle hops, I had forgotten about those. Holy crap did I ever get bad shin splints doing those one year.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Thought I would resurrect this old thread with a post mostly about myself...

When you get it, it's great. I used to do this, right there, right in that lane. Very few guys can get it, but if you do, you are the king to 5 or 10m.

Those scenes bring back memories! LMAO the hurdle hops, I had forgotten about those. Holy crap did I ever get bad shin splints doing those one year.

Is that you Uncle Rico???

Hey, when you’ve got it...

Plus I think I came 2nd, by word count.

Nothing wrong with remembering out loud, it might benefit others. Had Lewis known how to start, he would have been even with Ben.

Had Bolt known how to start, he would have been 9.4. I wonder if he could have gotten the start, who knows.

Old thread, but 2 big races and the results of the second were never finalized does not make someone the greatest ever, even in his time.

Carl had the 83 Gold, 84 Gold, 87 Silver, 88 Gold*, 91 Gold and twice set the 100m world record.

In Ben’s era.

Ben had the 84 Bronze, 87 Gold and 88 DQ.

And he has the 86 Goodwill Games win.

Carl beat Ben in a big Zurich matchup in 88.

Wasn’t Bolt first to the 20m mark in his 9.58?

Sit and kick wrote:

"Christophe Lemaitre would run 9.5 if he doped" is one of the best trolls I've ever read on this board.

It’s quite the troll.

It’s interesting that Sprintgeezer automatically assumes Lemaitre was clean. Even more interesting that he thinks a “juiced” Lemaitre had the potential to be the greatest sprinter of all time.

Of all the sprinters in the world he could have chosen to prove a point, he chooses Lemaitre… 🤔

Star wrote:

Old thread, but 2 big races and the results of the second were never finalized does not make someone the greatest ever, even in his time.

You’re right, that is not what made him the GOAT in his time. Defining a new era is what did it. Carl set no 100m WR, ever, and he knows it—nor did he define a new era.

Carl is one of my favorite sprinters ever—maybe my most favorite. But Ben was something else.

Star wrote:

Wasn’t Bolt first to the 20m mark in his 9.58?

Yes, and in a good time, too, if 10m splits can be believed—but both CC and BJ would have beaten him to that 20m when they were on. The right start cannot be bested by any other type of start. Some other guys have done watered-down versions of it, but BJ and CC have been the best.

Trainwreck watcher wrote:

Sit and kick wrote:

"Christophe Lemaitre would run 9.5 if he doped" is one of the best trolls I've ever read on this board.

It’s quite the troll.

It’s interesting that Sprintgeezer automatically assumes Lemaitre was clean. Even more interesting that he thinks a “juiced” Lemaitre had the potential to be the greatest sprinter of all time.

Of all the sprinters in the world he could have chosen to prove a point, he chooses Lemaitre… 🤔

Juice gets most well-trained people 0.50. CL was a well-trained 10-flat, with good basic form, but his upper body and lower body were very unbalanced. He lost 0.10-0.20 on the imbalance alone—an imbalance easily corrected with juice, WITHOUT EVEN TRYING. It would have happened in the normal and ordinary course of his training, yet it did not.

That is only one indication that he was clean. There are others that I have described at length on here. Militating against that are the bronze medals that he won in the middle of a juice era—but notice that neither came in the 100m, the event with higher power and CNS requirements.

Like it or not, he’s one of the fastest natural guys, ever.

Also Calvin Smith. Put him on the sauce and teach him to start with his newfound power, and he’s 9.6 easily IMO. With Lemaitre, one of the very fastest natural guys, EVER. Like it or not.

Also Lewis, btw. Put him on a modern program, or any serious program, and he’s 9.5

Maybe I was a bit optimistic with Lemaitre and Smith. I would give them 9.6 at a minimum. At least as fast as, but probably faster than, Powell.

You are a pathetic loser and I wouldn't be surprised if you were connected to the Canadian doping regime of the 80s.

This is all anybody needs to know about this-- end of story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiQ-4TFeeO8&t=132s&ab_channel=NBCSports

This happened in 2009. It is 2021. The fastest time run by anybody other than Bolt is 9.69. The fastest time run by someone who was not being pulled along by Bolt in a race is 9.74.

End of story.

Juice isn’t going to change your genetics, Sprintgeezer. There are guys in the gym on some very powerful anabolic stacks who can’t grow shoulders or calves to save their lives.

The assumption that Lemaitre was clean because he’s built like a twig above the waist compared to other sprinters pre-supposes that he ever had the genetic potential to create a more powerful build.

It’s also strange that you think you can easily assess the power of Lemaitre’s build by the naked eye, as if power is always proportionate to size. If that is the case, how do you explain Andre de Grasse in this era, or Frankie Fredericks in the 90s against sprinters who were almost twice his size? And then you have Mike Rodgers who’s been popped for doping, but still looks like he could be felled by a strong enough breeze.

For whatever reason, you seem to want to believe Lemaitre was clean, rather than accepting the possibility that he might just have been a mediocre doper whose potential couldn’t match that of other more talented dopers. You do realise that’s a possibility, don’t you?

So maybe Carl’s 9.92 and 9.86 wouldn’t have been world records if Ben didn’t admit to juicing in the lead up to his 9.83 in Rome (which was a ratified record).

But still, Ben’s short time at the top was sandwiched between both ends of Carl’s distinguished career.

Ben didn’t define a new era. He just ran a couple real fast times.

A GOAT has to have longevity.