Talentet-wise he is on Bolt's level but due to completely different qualities.
The best possible fantasy 100m race would be an Olympic final with Bolt and Johnson at both their peaks in the same era. Their style of sprinting/race model and persona would make for an amazing build-up and spectacular race, just picture it.
0bi wrote:
Talentet-wise he is on Bolt's level but due to completely different qualities.
The best possible fantasy 100m race would be an Olympic final with Bolt and Johnson at both their peaks in the same era. Their style of sprinting/race model and persona would make for an amazing build-up and spectacular race, just picture it.
(bolt wins by .15s+)
birdbeard wrote:
0bi wrote:
Talentet-wise he is on Bolt's level but due to completely different qualities.
The best possible fantasy 100m race would be an Olympic final with Bolt and Johnson at both their peaks in the same era. Their style of sprinting/race model and persona would make for an amazing build-up and spectacular race, just picture it.
(bolt wins by .15s+)
Dolt wins by 0.10
0bi wrote:
Talentet-wise he is on Bolt's level but due to completely different qualities.
The best possible fantasy 100m race would be an Olympic final with Bolt and Johnson at both their peaks in the same era. Their style of sprinting/race model and persona would make for an amazing build-up and spectacular race, just picture it.
Would be a fantastic race, you're right. These guys are the top 2 in my books, but I agree with the Bolt- Ben 1-2 order.
I wonder if Bolt was caught using PEDs...would people look favourably on him like a lot of people do now for Ben?
Sprintgeezer wrote:
There is a boatload of evidence that Dolt has used.
Where? Just because you SAY so, doesn't mean it IS so. Like many others have, I will concede that it's hard to imagine Bolt doing what he did clean since the runners he was beating were all dirty. But where is the EVIDENCE?
Armstrong and Marion Jones are the two most famous athletes who were routinely tested but never officially tested positive. But, they were associated with and involved in a lot of suspicious activity.
Besides 9.59 / 19.19, what was Bolt's suspicious activity?
I want to watch that video when I have more time.
Ben Johnson's performances don't touch Bolt but Johnson's career was cut short.
You wonder what Ben would have done if he had continued undetected.
(and we still don't know how he tested positive for one drug while he was taking another according to Charlie Francis. Maybe he took it on the side or his drink really was spiked)
Look at the 91 Championships in Tokyo: Lewis 9.86 WR, Burrell 9.85, Mitchell 9.91.
Would Ben have gone 9.69 in that race?
Would he have won the 92 Olympics over Christie? (probably)
He was 34 during the 96 Olympics won by Bailey in a world record 9.84.
Seems like he could have gotten 3 Oly Golds.
He was way ahead of the competition and his time.
9.79
Christian Coleman is the only one that has run that fast in the last 4 years.
assumingly 'fast' to you is sub 9.8. then cc also did 9.76, and while I know it's other distances, 19.50 is about the same level (lyles), while cc himself did 6.34 and 6.37
to other posters, it's 9.58, not .59
Bolt improved on time 200m time he ran as a 16 year old by less than a second. He was not fully developed at 16, and had several weakness contributing to less than ideal form.
This is the biggest proof that bolt was clean besides never testing positive after 100s of tests.
He ran 20.13 for 200m at 16 years of age.
20.13 at 16 years of age
19.19 at 22 years of age
What does that tell you
To me it says his progression was totally natural and he is the most talented sprinter of all time.
sprinter 1 2 3 wrote:
To me it says his progression was totally natural and he is the most talented sprinter of all time.
Unless of course Bolt was a part of one of the most sophisticated doping programs in youth sports history. Doubt Jamaica has the resources to run that kind of program for their youngsters.
My heart says/hopes he was always clean. Knowing how good he was when he was young certainly strengthens that for me. But, he was soooooo much better than everyone else who was doping. My head can't help but SUSPECT something fishy.
But, for me, that's just circumstantial. I have no evidence. Waiting on Geezer to provide said evidence.
The media controls how everyone thinks in Canada. If you are white and test positive, they will spin the story to make the general public believe it was just a silly mistake. If you are black and test positive, then they will crucify and make an example out of you and forever tarnish your reputation.
Just read this pathetic Macleans magazine article about Silken Laumann, who was taking PEDs. Oh it was just a 'comedy of errors'. Poor thing. Makes me want to vomit.
(and, of course, Ben is mentioned in the article as a comparison between the white angel and the black devil)
Laumann Fails Drug Test
Article taken from here:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/laumann-fails-drug-test/
She did what just about everybody else would have done: she had a cold, so she took a pill. But Silken Laumann is not everybody else. The 30-year-old rower is one of Canada's best-loved amateur athletes, an Olympic medallist and a top contender at the Summer Games in Atlanta next year. And at the Pan-Am Games in Mar del Plata, Argentina, Laumann was typically extraordinary, sailing to victory in the women's single sculls final on March 18. The next day, along with crewmates Marnie McBean, Diane O'Grady and Wendy Wiebe, she captured another gold in the women's quadruple event - winning by an 11-second margin over the Cuban boat. Then, the unthinkable: a Games official revealed that Laumann's anti-doping test had shown illegal levels of the banned stimulant pseudo-ephedrine. On March 23, the Pan-American Sports Organization (PASO) revoked the Canadian crew's gold medal.
At a news conference in Victoria, where she lives, Laumann lashed out at the decision, saying that she had only inadvertently used a prohibited medication. Canadian Olympic Association (COA) officials began preparing an appeal to try to keep the gold medals and hinted that the incident would not cost Laumann a chance to compete in Atlanta. As the participants hurled accusations and ducked blame, one question remained: how could this happen to Silken Laumann - the courageous and dedicated athlete who only three years ago returned from a devastating leg injury to capture bronze at the Barcelona Olympics? As the answer came to light, it revealed something less than a scandal of Ben Johnson proportions - and something more akin to a comedy of errors.
As Laumann told it, her problems began in Victoria on March 8, when she consulted rowing-team physician Richard Backus about what medication she should - and could legally - take for a developing cold. Backus recommended Benadryl, an over-the-counter antihistamine that does not contain banned substances. But when Laumann went to a Victoria pharmacy to purchase the medication, she inadvertently bought a different kind of Benadryl - Benadryl Decongestant Allergy. As is clearly marked on the label, the medication contains pseudo-ephedrine. But Laumann did not read the label. Nor did she consult a pamphlet, provided to all athletes by the government-funded Canadian Centre for Drug-Free Sport, which lists more than 100 banned substances - including the Benadryl Decongestant Allergy formula.
In Argentina, with her cold growing worse, Laumann consulted another team physician, Don Newhouse. He assured her that Benadryl was not in violation of anti-doping rules - although he did not check which kind she was using. She took the medication. And the next day, post-race tests revealed a concentration of 29 micrograms of pseudo-ephedrine per millilitre in her urine. The allowed limit is 10 micrograms.
According to Jack Uetrecht, a professor of pharmacy and medicine at the University of Toronto, pseudo-ephedrine stimulates the body's respiratory and vascular system in much the same way as adrenaline does. (Its decongestant benefit is that it shrinks nasal blood vessels.) But in the form and dosage that Laumann took it, pseudo-ephedrine "does not enhance performance," Uetrecht said. (Uetrecht added that Backus's original prescription - regular Benadryl - is an antihistamine that is effective only for treating allergies. "It wouldn't have helped her cold at all," he says. "To use it for colds is totally irrational.")
Although she acknowledged part of the responsibility for taking the wrong medication, Laumann laid heavy blame on the two doctors. "I think that it's very irresponsible," she said, "and that the advice from the doctors was given flippantly." The rower was not alone in her criticism. PASO president Mario Vasquez Rana and Prince Alexandre de Merode, head of the International Olympic Commission's Medical Committee in Lausanne, Switzerland, called for sanctions against the Canadian team's physicians.
One of them, Backus, was off on a ski vacation and unavailable for comment. But Newhouse complained that he is being made a scapegoat for the incident. "I don't feel any responsibility or that blame should be assigned to anyone in this," he said. Still, Carol Anne Letheren, chief executive officer of the COA, said that the incident points to the need for new medical guidelines. In the future, Letheren said, the COA will "simply have to require" that doctors "not give any advice unless they have seen the packaging and the product, and then only if they provide that advice in writing." Asked Victor Lachance, chief executive officer of the Canadian Centre for Drug-Free Sport: "Why not have an on-site pharmacy at each competition, dispensing only approved drugs?"
As for Laumann's immediate future, the COA's Letheren said that "Silken went to such lengths to protect herself and comply with the rules that we believe there should be no sanctions." Laumann, meanwhile, retired to her Victoria home to rest. "After this is over," she said, "I'm just going to have to put this behind me, be more careful and watch the advice that I take more carefully." From now on, she added, her attitude towards any medication will be: "Don't ever take anything ever, no matter how sick you are." After a week of turmoil, that is understandable. But there is another piece of advice, time-honored and tested, that may apply in this case: whenever taking an over-the-counter medication, read the label.
Maclean's April 3, 1995
** Note: When Ben was DQ'd at the 1988 Olympics, the Gold medal was then given to the sprinter who had finished second in the 100m final - an American named Carl Lewis.
It was later revealed that Carl had tested positive three times at the 1988 Olympics Trials for pseudoephedrine, ephedrine, and phenylpropanolamine, banned stimulants and bronchodilators also found in cold medication and due to the rules his case could lead to disqualification from the Seoul Olympics.
Lewis defended himself claiming he accidentally consumed the banned substances. After the supplements he was taking had been analyzed to prove his claims the USOC accepted his claim of inadvertent use.
Article about all of this:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/17/1050172709693.html
. . . aah too bad Ben could not use the same bogus excuse during the 1989 Dubin Inquiry, a Canadian government investigation into drug abuse.
Lesson to be learned? Black athlete on PEDs? Move to the United States. White athlete on PEDs? Stay in Canada.
YohanBolt wrote:
Besides 9.59 / 19.19, what was Bolt's suspicious activity?
- doped teammates
- had to return an Olympic gold medal due to doping
- Healing Hans with his secret ingredient
- covered up clen scandal involving unnamed Jamaican sprinters
Lots of reason for suspicion. And look at the list of the ten fastest 100 m sprinters:
Bolt
Blake - doped
Gay - doped
Powell - doped
Gatlin - doped
Coleman - 3 whereabouts failures in 10 months, currently banned)
Carter - doped
Montgomery - doped
Greene - doped
Mullings - doped
Thompson – 9.82 with a 1.7 tail wind
Ben Johnson's PR is 9.95.
Usain Bolt is the dirtiest drug cheat in the history of track and field.
Please read:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150905165210/http://www.muscleweek.com/is-usain-bolt-on-steroids
YohanBolt wrote:
But, for me, that's just circumstantial. I have no evidence.
Because there is no such thing as circumstantial evidence!?
Really, where do you guys get this stuff? It’s awesome!
You have to put BJ on the list, and chop off the bogus 9.82 P-O-S result (even though I love Thompson).
You are quite correct.
Top ten 100 m sprinters
Bolt (doped trainer partner, Jamaican clen scandal, Healing Hans, DQ’d in 4x 100 relay in Beijing)
Blake - doped
Gay - doped
Powell - doped
Gatlin - doped
Coleman (3 whereabout failures in 10 months, prov. banned)
Carter - doped
Montgomery - doped
Johnson - doped
Greene - doped
Mullings - doped
Just another doper. Should be banned for life and never mentioned again. It's as if the guy never existed.
doped how?
doped when?
doped to what effect?
Coevett wrote:
....., bit the thing with Johnson is he was obviously going full throttle. One year getting blown away by Alan Wells and the next year on a different planet to everybody. ...
"Blown away" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.
And for the record, Wells pipped him in 82. Two years later Johnson won a bronze medal in LA. Three more years later Johnson set a WR.
runderun wrote:
I think in the case of Bolt, it's safer to assume he was clean.i can't imagine an athlete who would have been more rigorously tested.He won too many titles and broke too many records to not be tested a lot, both in and out of competition. If he was doping then he must have had an operation of the calibre of the CIA co wrong it up. This isn't the 70s or 80s when doping control was awful and the technology so poor that a bunch of East Europeans could dope their way to gold
Lance Armstrong didn't fail any tests either. UCI said it tested him 215 times. USADA tested him 60 times. I wonder how many times the French tested him.
Also, Bolt seems to be obviously the GOAT 100m sprinter.