Plenty of college guys who go 1:47-1:50(or slower) who can consistently split 46-48 in the 4x400.
Why aren’t these guys 1:44 or better in the 800?
Plenty of college guys who go 1:47-1:50(or slower) who can consistently split 46-48 in the 4x400.
Why aren’t these guys 1:44 or better in the 800?
law of diminishing returns
Because 98% of 1:44 guys can run 47 pt in the open, let alone 47 on a relay.
I agree. Relay or DMR times are not a true measure. You don't always start at the same place so it may be run longer or shorter. So that alone makes a big difference in the 400m.
Lack of endurance. Even Duane Solomon who was a 45 400m guy, ran a 4:03 mile. The combination of the two gave him his 1:42 800. On the endurance side Symmonds was a 47 and 3:35 guy which gave him his 1:42. In the middle is Brazier who has a low 47(probably 46 if he ran it last year) and last year was a 3:37 guy, leading to his 1:42.(Of course now with his 3:35 from this year Brazier seems ready for 1:41 soon)
Many 800 guys are more endurance guys. Sprinters extend to get there. Distance runners always seem to think 400 speed should translate.
Jgt11 wrote:
Lack of endurance. Even Duane Solomon who was a 45 400m guy, ran a 4:03 mile. The combination of the two gave him his 1:42 800. On the endurance side Symmonds was a 47 and 3:35 guy which gave him his 1:42. In the middle is Brazier who has a low 47(probably 46 if he ran it last year) and last year was a 3:37 guy, leading to his 1:42.(Of course now with his 3:35 from this year Brazier seems ready for 1:41 soon)
You're way underestimating Brazier's 400 speed. He was splitting 45 on the relay in high school, and ran 46.91 indoors in 2018. I would suspect he could go solidly into the 45s outdoors.
Coaching 800 wrote:
Plenty of college guys who go 1:47-1:50(or slower) who can consistently split 46-48 in the 4x400.
Why aren’t these guys 1:44 or better in the 800?
A lot of poster love to state 400m relay legs when there is a discussion of 800m runners & 1500m runners 400m speed.
Every outdoor T&F season, there are only so many 45.xx F.A.T. 400m guys, N.C.A.A. If a fella is a 46.xx F.A.T. 400m man, on a D-2 T&F team, nearly always, he is the fastest 400m guy at his school. A 46.xx F.A.T. 400m man on a D-1 T&F more likely than not is the fastest 400m guy at his school. Legit F.A.T. sub-47 guys are so important to a college T&F team. As a college coach, are you going to risk injury and make a F.A.T. sub-47 400m guy run XC? Even if no injuries occur from participating in XC, you can psychologically ruin a legit 46.xx F.A.T. 400m guy if a coach makes him participate in XC and the fast 400m runner is awful at XC.
Logically, U.S. should produce many great 800m runners. Going back to Lon Meyers, U.S. produces the best 400m runners & 400m hurdlers. Great 800m runners tend to have 400m personal best in (45.xx to 47.xx) range. Pre-Lydiard and his theory of 100 miles per week for 800m and longer events, U.S. 800m achieved from 1896 Olympics to 1956 Olympics: 7 gold, 4 silver & 2 bronze. Lydiard 800m training dissuaded my 400m men (women) to move up to 800m.