x days without injury wrote:
Yeah they're definitely on the decline. I hope Nike continues producing the Streak LT because they're great.
THIS.
Absolutely adore this shoe. My favorite shoe of all time even if I will still probably race a marathon in the next% every time.
At a certain point (>10k I think), if you don't wear the carbon plated shoes you're disadvantaging yourself and there's no need to do that...
Also I tried to order the Reebok run Fast Pro from their website and several times the Reebok website would NOT process my payment, even though I know I entered all my info correctly.
Has anyone else had a hard time with the Reebok website?
I really want to try that flat! It's insanely light
HRE wrote:
I think every shoe you mentioned is off the market now except for "some Japanese models" which basically comes down to the Sortie Magic which you can find if you really, really, look. I have a friend who's a big guy at New Balance who tells me that the Hanzo is still available and will show me where. But he hasn't and I can't find it. I've been seeing ads for Xero shoes and they might have some promise but I've never seen a pair. The Nike Streak may be all that's left that's easily attainable though you might try some cross country flats.
Along with the LT 4 which is available in every size and multiple colors, the Altra Vanish is available in many sizes and colors and their website. Haven't checked the others but I'm willing to bet many of them are still in stock.
Also, to the poster who mentioned New Balance, I think they have a cool flat called the 5280 that's designed for the mile. It does have a carbon plate....but it looks pretty lightweight and minimalist.
Rhodium Nights wrote:
HRE wrote:
I think every shoe you mentioned is off the market now except for "some Japanese models" which basically comes down to the Sortie Magic which you can find if you really, really, look. I have a friend who's a big guy at New Balance who tells me that the Hanzo is still available and will show me where. But he hasn't and I can't find it. I've been seeing ads for Xero shoes and they might have some promise but I've never seen a pair. The Nike Streak may be all that's left that's easily attainable though you might try some cross country flats.
Along with the LT 4 which is available in every size and multiple colors, the Altra Vanish is available in many sizes and colors and their website. Haven't checked the others but I'm willing to bet many of them are still in stock.
Also, to the poster who mentioned New Balance, I think they have a cool flat called the 5280 that's designed for the mile. It does have a carbon plate....but it looks pretty lightweight and minimalist.
Saucony A9
https://www.saucony.com/en/type-a9/39133M.htmlAsics
https://www.asics.com/us/en-us/tartheredge/p/ANA_1011A544-750.html?width=Standardhttps://www.asics.com/us/en-us/heatracer-2/p/ANA_1011A798-700.html?width=StandardHRE wrote:
I think every shoe you mentioned is off the market now except for "some Japanese models" which basically comes down to the Sortie Magic which you can find if you really, really, look. I have a friend who's a big guy at New Balance who tells me that the Hanzo is still available and will show me where. But he hasn't and I can't find it. I've been seeing ads for Xero shoes and they might have some promise but I've never seen a pair. The Nike Streak may be all that's left that's easily attainable though you might try some cross country flats.
I actually went to Xero’s office outside Boulder and tried on some of their shoes. They have no cushioning, just a thin layer of rubber and a thin insole. Their stack height is like 5.5 mm on average, truely a minimalist shoe. Nothing wrong with that if that’s your thing but they are not in the same category as the other shoes discussed on this thread.
So why did you people fall out of love with the Nike Free?
messi wrote:
So why did you people fall out of love with the Nike Free?
I still like the Nike Frees they are great for track athletes when they aren't wearing spikes. Nike also makes the Flex Runs that can fill that bill as well. The problem with both of those shoe models is they have virtually no tread, they are really not comparable to the racing flats discussed on here, but they are pretty light weight and minimal. Honestly I have about 5 generations of Nike Frees in my garage, I used to get them pretty cheap at the Nike Outlet. I think I just got so tired of picking rocks out of the grooves in them and I finally stopped buying them. If you are OK with something a little bit heavier than the flats listed here the Saucony Kinvara's are pretty mainstream and readily available as well.
I'm not sure if it's a racing flat, but the NB Coast is about as light and minimal as a shoe can get. It's essentially a slipper (no tongue) that keeps a thin layer of foam on the bottom of your foot. They feel virtually weightless.
I'm like you in that I don't need or want any stability features. I just want to keep rocks and glass out of the sole of my foot. I'm into my second pair of Coasts and they fit the bill perfectly
altra varnish
reebok flaotride runfast pro
asics sortimagic rp4/5
NB 5280
those are very lightweight 0-6mm drop racing flats.
What is the problem? that's enough choice.
The adidas takumi sen is good also but heavier.
Wait until Nike athletes start winning everything in the “low stack” versions of the Vaporfly that they’re developing (dragonfly, hyperfly, etc...) then you’ll see manufacturers scrambling to keep up.
Not a Nike fan in the least, BTW, Nike just seems to be about 3-4 years ahead of everyone on race shoe technology.
I wanna speak to the manager wrote:
sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:
I've been using the Saucony Fastwitch for my road racing flats and they have worked well but it's time to replace them. I don't need the stability features and I figured that I could shave off an ounce or so with a neutral racing flat. Upon poking around at current offerings, looks like there are barely any shoes that come in a lighter weight and more minimal than the Fastwitch 9. Most brands have released a $200+ high stack, carbon fiber-plated marathon shoes and then discontinued their traditional, minimal, cheaper racing flat. Other remaining racing flats seem too heavy or complicated for my liking.
All I can really find that might come in at a lower weight than the Saucony Fastwitch are the following:
-Saucony Type A9
-Skechers GoMeb Speed 6
-Skechers Horizon Vanish
-Altra Vanish
-Nike Zoom Streak LT 4
-Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pro
Like that's pretty much it. Has the pendulum swung so far away from these types of shoes that few companies are offering them anymore? I think they still have a place for the 5k-10k and maybe up to half marathon road racer that will benefit from a minimal shoes as much as the $200 marathon super shoes. I'm wondering if I should just find some track flats and race in those.
6 choices isn’t enough for you?
6 shoes is plenty but there are probably only two of these models that I would realistically consider. I will explain:
-I don't like Altras, period. I had a pair and won't be trying them again.
-I'm a Nike hater so I avoid buying their shoes as much as possible.
-Reebok Floatride Run Fast Pro is just too expensive for what it is, period.
-Skechers Horizon Vanish is very light but doesn't seem as fine tuned for racing as the other Skechers.
Leaves me with the Saucony Type A9 and Skechers GoMeb Speed 6. Leaning towards the Skechers because it seems more versatile with the thicker midsole and midfoot plate while coming in at about the same weight. Although I might have to break my Nike embargo because so many people have spoken glowingly of the Zoom Streak LT. And I can basically get all these for the price of one super shoe.
CO Coach wrote:
I think it's not that the remaining 6 choices aren't good, they are, but the writing seems to be on the wall for these kind of shoes. The Streak LT and A9 are great, for example, but they haven't been updated in a couple of years now. Adidas doesn't make a proper racing flat anymore, neither does New Balance, it's not hard to see the other manufacturers following suite at some point.
As a coach of sprinters and jumpers I mourn the loss of lower running shoes and flats, many modern running shoes are worthless for almost anything but marathon training. I've been recommending racing flats and/or cross country flats for my sprinters for years, for something to wear when they aren't spiked up. Every time I have a kid show up to track practice wearing some of these new running shoes with a giant block of foam glued to the bottom, I cringe. Are they going to roll an ankle doing our warmup drills or plyometrics? Can they sprint on the curve in them without hurting themselves? I really hope the industry comes back to the middle a bit, not everyone wants or needs 3 cm of foam strapped to the bottom of their feet.
A good option for your guys might be one of the lightweight trainers with a lower stack height of the low density foam. I'm thinking like the Saucony Kinvara or New Balance Fresh Foam Tempo. Come in almost as light as racing flats with a bit more cushion but not like platform shoes.
The Run Fast Pro can pretty frequently be found at 40%+ off, and at that point I think it's a decent buy. Usually just sales on the Reebok website, but sometimes Running Warehouse will discount them.
Anyone running in the Skechers Speed Elite? They do have a plate, but otherwise pretty close to a traditional flat (5.7 oz, 28/24 mm).
Ho Hum wrote:
The Run Fast Pro can pretty frequently be found at 40%+ off, and at that point I think it's a decent buy. Usually just sales on the Reebok website, but sometimes Running Warehouse will discount them.
Anyone running in the Skechers Speed Elite? They do have a plate, but otherwise pretty close to a traditional flat (5.7 oz, 28/24 mm).
Doctors of Running liked the Speed Elite in their review. Are good for a 5k to half marathon at least. Said that a faster or more experienced runner or person used to less cushion could use them up to a marathon. My concern from their review was durability. I just hate paying near $200 or above for a shoe that struggles to last 200 miles. Not worth it to me, in my opinion. I think if they tacked on a bit more rubber for a couple tenths of an ounce, they shoe would last longer.
The saucony cross country flats are also pretty sweet. The Kilkenny flat is impressively light yet supportive (in terms of lockdown).
sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:
CO Coach wrote:
I think it's not that the remaining 6 choices aren't good, they are, but the writing seems to be on the wall for these kind of shoes. The Streak LT and A9 are great, for example, but they haven't been updated in a couple of years now. Adidas doesn't make a proper racing flat anymore, neither does New Balance, it's not hard to see the other manufacturers following suite at some point.
As a coach of sprinters and jumpers I mourn the loss of lower running shoes and flats, many modern running shoes are worthless for almost anything but marathon training. I've been recommending racing flats and/or cross country flats for my sprinters for years, for something to wear when they aren't spiked up. Every time I have a kid show up to track practice wearing some of these new running shoes with a giant block of foam glued to the bottom, I cringe. Are they going to roll an ankle doing our warmup drills or plyometrics? Can they sprint on the curve in them without hurting themselves? I really hope the industry comes back to the middle a bit, not everyone wants or needs 3 cm of foam strapped to the bottom of their feet.
A good option for your guys might be one of the lightweight trainers with a lower stack height of the low density foam. I'm thinking like the Saucony Kinvara or New Balance Fresh Foam Tempo. Come in almost as light as racing flats with a bit more cushion but not like platform shoes.
I have a couple of kids in Kinvaras right now and I have a pair of Kinvara 10s I still wear almost every day, I love those shoes. I haven’t tried the Tempos yet but I’ll take a look. Thanks!
CO Coach wrote:
HRE wrote:
I think every shoe you mentioned is off the market now except for "some Japanese models" which basically comes down to the Sortie Magic which you can find if you really, really, look. I have a friend who's a big guy at New Balance who tells me that the Hanzo is still available and will show me where. But he hasn't and I can't find it. I've been seeing ads for Xero shoes and they might have some promise but I've never seen a pair. The Nike Streak may be all that's left that's easily attainable though you might try some cross country flats.
I actually went to Xero’s office outside Boulder and tried on some of their shoes. They have no cushioning, just a thin layer of rubber and a thin insole. Their stack height is like 5.5 mm on average, truely a minimalist shoe. Nothing wrong with that if that’s your thing but they are not in the same category as the other shoes discussed on this thread.
That actually would be my thing. Even things like the Asics Tarther and Heat Racer are more cushioned than I like. Thanks. But the Xeroes seem pricey for something so minimal.
Hoka Rehi? Lightweight, flexible with a great combination of ground feel and cushioning. Different than any other Hoka.
CO Coach wrote:
sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:
A good option for your guys might be one of the lightweight trainers with a lower stack height of the low density foam. I'm thinking like the Saucony Kinvara or New Balance Fresh Foam Tempo. Come in almost as light as racing flats with a bit more cushion but not like platform shoes.
I have a couple of kids in Kinvaras right now and I have a pair of Kinvara 10s I still wear almost every day, I love those shoes. I haven’t tried the Tempos yet but I’ll take a look. Thanks!
Well I should clarify that is not a recommendation for the NB Tempos because I have never tried them. There is a just a whole category of shoes that are basically scaled-down Hokas with lower density, lower weight EVA foam. But they don't have the ridiculous stack height, come in at not much heavier than racing flats, and you can get pretty good turnover in them.
HRE wrote:
CO Coach wrote:
I actually went to Xero’s office outside Boulder and tried on some of their shoes. They have no cushioning, just a thin layer of rubber and a thin insole. Their stack height is like 5.5 mm on average, truely a minimalist shoe. Nothing wrong with that if that’s your thing but they are not in the same category as the other shoes discussed on this thread.
That actually would be my thing. Even things like the Asics Tarther and Heat Racer are more cushioned than I like. Thanks. But the Xeroes seem pricey for something so minimal.
You can get the Merrell Vapor Glove 4 on Amazon for as low as $54 if you are not picky about the color. They are even lighter weight than the Xero shoes. There are some knock off Vapor Gloves by various companies on Amazon for as little as $20 with good reviews. These are all shoes with no midsole so very little in the way of cushioning, even compared to the racing flats discussed here.
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