Someone explain a believable “why” COVID-19 is a conspiracy

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

More seriously now we know the IFR is very close to actual Flu. All countries know this but the initial overreaction was driven by a lack of data and believing the disease far more serious than it was. I think this shows how much the world relies on the US for intelligence. Because US ability to diagnose it was so bad everyone in the developed world acted way to on the side of caution.

Now that we know the true IFR no one wants to admit we overreacted and F'ed up the world's economy.

You mean not like Brazil who acted as if it was the flu? How are they tracking.

3rd world countries have done a better job than USA. You should get out more if you think the world relies on USA for intelligence....thank goodness we don't. In fact most see USA now as a laughing stock.

whyze why wrote:

Me again.

Asking for “why”. Closest thing I’ve heard so far is 1) governments made a mistake and didn’t want to look bad so kept going with it and 2) some crazy new world order conspiracy. Anyone got anything else?

How about China? They inocculated everyone, then gave it to 80,000 not inoculated, the world then panicked, screwing up their economies and getting infected, then China buys all bankrupt companies and even countries on their 'One Belt one Road, one Country' program.

Russian and Chinese bots are riling up the deniers and the conspiracy theorists and those that just hate the MSM or one of our political parties or politicians. Their goal is absolutely to make America look incompetent. An America that is distracted internally gives its enemies more standing and influence elsewhere. That's about as much "coordination" or "conspiracy" as there is here.

Given what China and Russia are doing, it's incredibly sad that people here are blaming US politicians or the media as having an agenda to ruin America for some political or ideological gain. Neither the media nor politicians are as single-minded or coordinated as it would take to launch a campaign like this.

Tinfoil Hat wrote:

Russian and Chinese bots are riling up the deniers and the conspiracy theorists and those that just hate the MSM or one of our political parties or politicians. Their goal is absolutely to make America look incompetent. An America that is distracted internally gives its enemies more standing and influence elsewhere. That's about as much "coordination" or "conspiracy" as there is here.

Given what China and Russia are doing, it's incredibly sad that people here are blaming US politicians or the media as having an agenda to ruin America for some political or ideological gain. Neither the media nor politicians are as single-minded or coordinated as it would take to launch a campaign like this.

The government has already done social tests to measure the effectiveness of the global warming campaign. They used it as precursor to the corona panic to gauge how effectively they could divide our nation and manipulate science to prove both sides causing unending debate that lead to no meaningful discussions.

I did realize something last night. No one person no matter what they do will ever change how they think. Which means either I’m crazy and will continue to go down this rabbits hole, or Y’all are mormans

slrepeless11010 wrote:

“The powers of financial capitalism had a far reaching plan, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole.”

Caroll Quigely

This guy insane, what a whacked out tinfoil wearing basement dwelling Dullard

There is an elephant in the room

Why the Libs so convinced the bots only try to manipulate the Republicans. They go after both sides. On this one it is way better for foreign powers that we cripple our economy rather than open up and have a couple hundred thousand healthy people(way overestimate) die but have the strong economy we have before.

Anyone with common sense and a scientific understanding could see the BS on this from the start. That doesn't mean you didn't think COVID is real or that it is just the flu. Just the information we were presented was intentionally manipulated.

A new measurement CFR was used to compare COVID to the Flu rate to make COVID seem way more scary without context that it was like using metric system measurements against imperial.

To double down on CFR, the CFR was taken from the countries that had higher CFR's rather than say South Korea's which was roughly half other nations.

We created new rules for a laboratory diagnosis of cause of death to inflate COVID deaths. To double down the CDC said a COVID death should be recorded if they were throught to have COVID or have COVID like symptoms without a positive. Look at the list of COVID symptoms say shortness of breath, don't a lot of people have that when they're dying?

The government began financially incentivizing the healthcare industry to label patients and deaths as COVID.

Governors ordered Covid patients be sent to nursing homes which caused a huge number of the deaths by infecting the most vulnerable.

New York isn't reporting nusing home patient deaths, they only report it as a nursing home death if they die in the nursing home to cover up this scandal.

We were told masks don't help. Then we were told they do to stop the asymptomatic spread. Then we're told asymptomatic spread is extremely rare.

We are being told we are seeing a second wave despite the fact that hospitalizations and deaths have been declining for weeks.

Protests are allowed during a dangerous pandemic but other smaller gatherings are not safe.

Governor Cuomo's brother had a two week quarantine in his basement while him and Dr Sanjay commiserrated on how bad the virus was that ended with a dramatic coming out the basement schene. He was seen out harrassing a biker while in quarantine, he never looked sick, and healthcare professionals said the pictures of his lungs displayed on the show looked normal.

These are not Russian bot creations. These are real things. It is perfectly reasonable to say maybe COVID is not as bad as was presented and this is an overreaction. The tinfoil hat wearers are the ones refusing to look at new evidence and re-evaluate their opinion.

Jekyll Island was in Georgia, wasn’t it? Or was there another conference in North Carolina in 1910 that I never heard of.

dgaega wrote:

Well, what is not crazy is the fact that governments can now analyze just how far the public can be controlled.

In this case, the answer is very little, considering the number of morans who have consistently ignored the advice of medical experts and made the pandemic worse.

These things you cite are noise. They are not "evidence" of anything but some insight into a conspiracy you are trying to weave. Nice try, comrade.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

First it was this is a deadly disease that kills 3%ish of those infected.

IFR estimates have been ~ 1% since basically the beginning of the crisis. Unclear why you need to repeatedly misrepresent this.

Also your claim "it's as deadly as the flu" is at odds with lots of IFR literature:

New York (which had it especially bad) -- 1.45%:

Even here in Geneva the population-wide IFR is 0.64% estimated. Much higher than seasonal flu.

Debunking your posts gets tiring, but it's honest work.

Ugg, you should be questioning why the IFR's are so far off, largely because they're based on crap data and assumptions. Our own CDC said best estimate is .26% IFR based on a 35% asymptomatic. Which by the way we've learned asymptomatic is far higher. You're more than willing to cite the CDC mask rules or stop the spread BS but when their IFR rate doesn't fit the narrative throw it out.

Anyone suggesting 1% IFR needs to have their study immediately dumped in the trash. Every reasonable medical expert agrees at least 40 million Americans have had COVID. Some think it is much more. Even with our creative counting that would be close to half a million COVID deaths. Even those claiming our COVID death numbers are low are suggesting we're low in the 10's of thousands in the US, not hundreds.

whyze why wrote:

Yes, the virus is real, but the democrat's narrative is what is not real. Keep moving those goalposts, and people will see just how dishonest you people really are.

The question is “why”. Also, please explain the international response, not just the US.

Explain why you keep moving the goalposts

[quote]Tinfoil Hat wrote:

Russian and Chinese bots are riling up the deniers

The Russians did it?

Keep that hat tight

COVID should be taken seriously as much as the flu is. The conspiracy is that this was released by the Chinese government in the Wuhan lab to cause chaos in democratic nations like the U.S.

China obviously wants Trump to lose because it greatly benefits them. They can continue to rip off the U.S. working class and take away democracy in Hong Kong without any repercussions if Biden is elected.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

Ugg, you should be questioning why the IFR's are so far off, largely because they're based on crap data and assumptions. Our own CDC said best estimate is .26% IFR based on a 35% asymptomatic. Which by the way we've learned asymptomatic is far higher. You're more than willing to cite the CDC mask rules or stop the spread BS but when their IFR rate doesn't fit the narrative throw it out.

Anyone suggesting 1% IFR needs to have their study immediately dumped in the trash. Every reasonable medical expert agrees at least 40 million Americans have had COVID. Some think it is much more. Even with our creative counting that would be close to half a million COVID deaths. Even those claiming our COVID death numbers are low are suggesting we're low in the 10's of thousands in the US, not hundreds.

The CDC IFR estimate is 1) based on data almost 2.5 months old, and 2) Refuses to cite where they get their data from -- unlike the preprints I posted.

I try to cite real literature (or at least scientists analyzing real lit) when I can. I don't think unsourced data from CDC is a strong source. I don't think I've cited them in the past-- unless they back up their claims with real lit.

2) Where is your evidence for 40M infections in the USA? Covid19-projections.com has been among the most accurate and they put their estimate at 20M infected currently and 125k deaths. This gives ~0.6% IFR. 1% IFR is easily reasonable in hotspots like NYC and Italy. There were towns in Italy where >1% of the population died!

IFR estimates of ~1% seem to have been fairly accurate so far. ~0.5% seems more likely for the "second wave" as we are marginally better prepared and the virus seems to be infecting a different strata of the population.

Still much worse than the flu, which is what I originally took issue with and you conveniently sidestepped.

I'll wait for the goalposts to move again.

Virus appears to be more or less a flu. We cant shut down every time a mildly bad virus comes along. People forget that the economy is REAL LIFE, and not being able to work is a nightmare case scenario for much of the population. 4.5% of the deaths were below the age of 45. Half of the deaths are those above the age of 75, most of which were in Nursing Homes. These deaths are extremely avoidable but poor local leadership caused these nursing homes to be ravaged. Virus is mostly safe. If you don't feel safe, make it safe by staying home and let everyone else work.

Also, its worth noting that local leaders across the country took the virus as an opportunity to have an obvious power grab, so they could ***force*** people to wear masks or locked at home and punish those that don't. While surely this is done with good intentions, it doesn't mean these govt officials have the authority to do it. The pathway to hell is paved with good intentions. Regardless, half the country doesn't care bc they want to be babied from cradle to grave by the govt.

If you claim that the whole country must shut down to save the lives of a select group (that being elderly or those with dangerous conditions), then you are failing to acknowledge that these groups can be protected without shutting everyone down. Isolate these groups, and take care of those. Let everyone else go to normal with minimal casualties.

It's not hard to open your mind to other perspectives instead of calling them "conspiracies" or whatever. I understand where the opposition is coming from, I think think they are no seeing the trends

OMG - so many words, so little rationale. Can someone please succinctly state "why" COVID-19 can believably be described as a conspiracy?

I stand corrected

Some more info on IFR ... "Using the handful of studies that have calculated infection-fatality rates for seasonal flu ... determined that somewhere between 1 and 10 people die for every 100,000 that are infected. For COVID-19, that number ranges between 500 and 1,000 deaths per 100,000 infections. By his calculations, the coronavirus is likely to be 50 to 100 times more deadly than the seasonal flu, which supports the Columbia University findings."

Also, there's been quite a bit of reporting about 5 to 10% of those infected experiencing on-going symptoms now lasting months -- that also suggests it's worse than a flu.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/coronavirus-deadlier-than-many-believed-infection-fatality-rate-cvd/