(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 6/21/20

Crappy week for me.

Stats: 35m/6”2”/180 (and climbing)

Goal Race: Mohawk Hudson HM on 10/11, potentially some 5k/10k TT in the lead-up and aftermath

M - 10 @ 7:25

T - 3.5 up, 3x2mile on trail. 11:09/11:06/5:30 and then “pop”. More below.

W through Su - Off w/ some core work and pushups.

Felt some discomfort in my calf on that last rep right around .75 miles and stupidly kept running thinking I could finish the workout which was otherwise going great. Right around a mile I felt/heard a loud popping sound in my lower calf/Achilles area and was basically stopped on my tracks. Hobbled home 3-4 miles looking like Frankenstein. Was really afraid the entire walk that I did something to my Achilles but by the time I got home was pretty sure it was a lower calf issue. For those that remember this is the same Calf that hobbled me in December of last year for a month or so (with a couple of false starts).

Was able to get a virtual appointment with a sports medicine doc my buddy recommended. He ruled out the Achilles, confirmed the calf and recommended no activity for at least 2 weeks including cross training. After 2 weeks he was going to setup some PT and consider some imaging. He also advised that the next few days were going to be rough with bruising, stiffness etc.

As it turns out I seem to be mending pretty quickly. Never had any bruising and was walking normally by late Friday. Woke up this morning and can’t really feel it walking around, going up and down stairs etc. Beyond a bit of stiffness.

I think I will start back in the elliptical slowly tomorrow assuming it doesn’t bother anything. I hate going against Dr. orders but also think they may be a bit too conservative. I also hate the idea of beginning to detrain. Definitely will not contemplate giving a walk jog a try until at least 2 weeks post injury and DEFINITELY will build back slowly/cautiously even if everything feels right.

Does this seem reasonable to your guys?

highhoppingworm wrote:

I think I will start back in the elliptical slowly tomorrow assuming it doesn’t bother anything. I hate going against Dr. orders but also think they may be a bit too conservative. I also hate the idea of beginning to detrain. Definitely will not contemplate giving a walk jog a try until at least 2 weeks post injury and DEFINITELY will build back slowly/cautiously even if everything feels right.

Does this seem reasonable to your guys?

Worm - the elliptical, for me, really loads up my calves. Any way you could get on an exercise bike or a rower? Still a lot of aerobic stress, less calf loading. I had a big calf injury (similar to what you experienced it sounds like) the summer before I went to college, and I had 3 or 4 false starts where after a week I had minimal pain, so I introduced more intense x-training for running and some super light jogging and was back to square one within 10min each time. I eventually gave it a full 3-4wks with no running at all, single leg pushoffs on flip turns in the pool, and no riding out of the saddle on the bike. Came back with 20min jogs, then extended from there. It was the only remedy that worked.

I'll post my week later, I got back home today and have access to my bikes again so I'm going to get my ride in before posting!

king_chaz wrote:

Stone, long time lurker here. Have been on and off the boards for years. I think you are sharp mind when it comes to training.

At this point - how would you define your coaching philosophy? I know it has changed quite a bit through the years.

I didn’t mean to ignore your post last week. Haven’t kept up much with the thread during my time off.

You are correct in that the specifics of my coaching style has looked differently over the years, but the general philosophy remains the same.

Above all else, start where you are and train specifically to where you want to go. First, lay and maintain a general aerobic base. Introduce light quality (moderate runs, progressions, fartlek, strides) to allow mechanical and moderate aerobic adaptations. Then start to funnel faster than race pace work and slower than race pace work toward specific pace work the closer you get to race day.

The main difference now is that I don’t fixate so much on pace as the driving guide of training, rather effort. As such, I would also say that I am more conservative in the types of workouts I implement and prescribe, favoring consistency over high quality.

My philosophy is a blend of many popular coaches. Like Daniels, I think you always need to know the purpose of every run and stick to that purpose. Like Hansons, I think there should be some element of cumulative fatigue in training, especially when marathon training, and that training consistently while avoiding attempting “home run” workouts will more quickly and safely get you to your goal. Like Canova, I believe in moving from the general to the specific, and that the most specific type of training should occur in the last few weeks before your goal race(s).

But now more than ever, I think it is always important to listen to your body, to let your effort dictate the training not the pace. Because effort you can get right everyday. Pace can be hard to get right a lot of the times due to variances in conditions (weather, sleep, stress, life, etc.). So that if you are always fighting to hit target paces and not relaxing to feel and hit target effort, you become a runner who trains to fight himself, not a runner who trains to build himself.

Mrs. Stone’s week:

Female, 44, 5’6”

PRs: 21:20 (2016, 2019), 1:36:43 (2019), 3:28:24 (2019)

TTs: 1:34:54 (2020), 3:24:07 (2020)

Currently scheduled races; NYC Marathon (11/1/20)

All training effort-based. No access to any GPS data other than distance until after the run.

M - Rest

T - 8

W - 9. Including 8 x .5 mile with .25 mile recovery jogs. 6:42/average.

Th - 8

F - 6

Sa - 13

Su - 8

Weekly Total: 52 miles

YTD Miles: 1,212 miles

Strong workout Wednesday. Saturday’s conditions were awful (78 + 72), so she just kept it easy this week.

M, 48, 5’8”, 151

M - 7 easy

Tu - 10 easy, but last 5 were a limp fest as I caught HHW’s calf strain 5 miles in

W - off

Th - off

F - 4.5 easy

Sa - 4.5 easy

Su - 4 easy (anticipated)

30 total if I get that 4 miler in. That’s 10 weeks at 30-40.

Calf came out of nowhere. Was pretty tight the next day and even a little on Th, so I took two days off in a row, which I normally try to avoid. Felt it a little for the first two miles on Friday, but if loosened up a little more as the run progressed. Didn’t feel it at all yesterday.

The good thing about no racing is that I don’t care much about the down week.

RRR 37 6ft 18x

Next up is the sub 5 miracle mile attempt

30 miles of running

Q1 - 6x400 60s rest 69-73-76-75-75-77. Changed shoes and on run home 400-200x2 75-38 70-35

(Mucked up this workout see below)

Q2 - 2T 5:58-5:49 2:11rest 1 hard mile 5:32 (on the road )

400 workout the track was packed w people including a group of 4 taking up lanes 1-3 and going slooooooow so asked for lane 1 and was rebuffed. So I was pissed and ran my first lap way to hard and with the short rest I was kind of in trouble. So bagged it at 6 and on way home hammered a few more reps. So still quality work.

The T workout was going to be 3T straight but it was really hot and so Augmented it into 2T with some rest then hammered a last mile rep. Prob a better mile workout that way anyways

Got some lifting in and some biking. But not a lot of biking. Wanted the legs fresh for these last few weeks of work. One more hard workout this week of 2x800 on 5mins rest and goal race pace Then a light T session on the weekend.

Was a solid week. Happy Fathers Day to you Dads.

27 M, 5' 10'', 157 ish lbs

Goal: Get Faster

Goal Race: MCM or Maraton de Malaga

M: 8 easy / 5 easy w/ random 400 m TT cause I felt like it: 64 seconds, not horrible. Think I can go sub 60 if I train for it for a bit.

Tues: 8 easy w/ 5 x 20'' strides

Weds: WU/CD + 10 x 2' @ 6:05 + 10 x 2' @ 5:55

Thurs: 7 easy

Friday: WU/CD + 12 x 12'' hill sprints / 7 easy

Sat: 8 easy

Sun: WU/CD + 8 mi @ 6:30 + 7' easy + 6 x 45'' @ 5k effort, total = 16 miles

Weekly Total: 79 miles. Great week, maybe the best of the last 14 weeks. Fitness is really starting to take off.

Smoove wrote:

M, 48, 5’8”, 151

M - 7 easy

Tu - 10 easy, but last 5 were a limp fest as I caught HHW’s calf strain 5 miles in

W - off

Th - off

F - 4.5 easy

Sa - 4.5 easy

Su - 4 easy (anticipated)

30 total if I get that 4 miler in. That’s 10 weeks at 30-40.

Calf came out of nowhere. Was pretty tight the next day and even a little on Th, so I took two days off in a row, which I normally try to avoid. Felt it a little for the first two miles on Friday, but if loosened up a little more as the run progressed. Didn’t feel it at all yesterday.

The good thing about no racing is that I don’t care much about the down week.

Four miler officially in, despite the impact of some significant pagan-like celebration of the summer solstice.

Male, 52 yo, 5’7”, 129 lbs

No races upcoming

> 72% HRmax / 65 min / flat

> 77% HRmax / 65 min / flat

> 72% HRmax / 65 min / flat

> 72% HRmax / 65 min / hilly / 1x 8 sec HS

> 80% HRmax / 97 min / hilly

Strava Relative Effort: 297

As usual, nothing to see here. Just continuing my base building progression. Only ran 5 days instead of 6 because of unforeseen circumstances.

On the diligence front, I’ve been consistently doing my heel drops throughout everyday when I get a moment. I have also begun to incorporate the movements from the Gambetta circuit into my daily routine. I know I need the strength and flexibility. I also know that I really have never done much on this front. So I’m going about this slowly and methodically. I started by adding a few lunges to my everyday routine. I’ll add in some squats this week. My body needs to learn the movements separately before I start putting them together into any kind of circuit. I don’t need to force anything because anything I do in terms of strength and flexibility is more than I’ve ever done before.

Be healthy, everyone. Be happy.

highhoppingworm wrote:

I think I will start back in the elliptical slowly tomorrow assuming it doesn’t bother anything. I hate going against Dr. orders but also think they may be a bit too conservative. I also hate the idea of beginning to detrain. Definitely will not contemplate giving a walk jog a try until at least 2 weeks post injury and DEFINITELY will build back slowly/cautiously even if everything feels right.

Does this seem reasonable to your guys?

So.....I wouldn't worry too much about detraining in terms of overall fitness, but I do personally believe that you don't want to unload soft tissue any more than you have to -- cutting back too much just means you have to reintroduce that much more load.

Do you have a PT you could work with on this? I'd trust that person more than a doctor - doctors are skilled at diagnosing, and at adminstering medications, but they don't (IME) generally understand rehab. Hence the default instructions to "rest for x time"

Sucks to hear about the calf HHW. I wouldnt worry too much about cross training. Just do what it takes to stay somewhat sane and give that injury the proper time off. Sometimes we can go too hard in cross training and do more damage or prevent recovery.

npurdy1112 wrote:

Sucks to hear about the calf HHW. I wouldnt worry too much about cross training. Just do what it takes to stay somewhat sane and give that injury the proper time off. Sometimes we can go too hard in cross training and do more damage or prevent recovery.

This ... I was in the injury cycle rushing back after an injury and XTing to much, Took 5 months off and I think been back running like 14 weeks? and the fitness is coming back fast ... so a couple weeks isnt gonna impact you much at all.

Goal: Who knows. Build fitness and try to knock on old PRs in a couple few years.

Mon: 11 easy

Tues: 12.6 (Block Progression)

Wed: 10 + 3.1 easy

Thurs: 9 easy

Fri: 12 (8x800@CV)

Sat: 8.5 + 3.75 easy

Sun: 10 easy

Total: 80

Tues: 30 min block progression. 30 easy, 30 moderate, 30 easy tempo. Underestimated this one but wasnt too bad overall. the tempo catches up to you.

Fri: 3mi warm up with last mile at aerobic tempo. 8x800 @ CV w/ 90s jog. Stayed within CV barely. 2:47 to 2:50. Slept in and got started a couple hours later than I wanted to. Warm day, luckily a short workout.

M37, 6'1" 160 lbs

PRs: 19:45 5K (2019), 1:34:43 HM (2019)

Goals: Build a base, 5k TT on 7/4, 1:30 HM in 2020

M: 5 mi easy

Tu: 6.25 mi easy

W: 7.75 mi w/ 10 x 200 hard in the middle

Th: 6.25 easy

F: Off

Sa: 2.5 w/u, 5 mi tempo (7:45>>7:15), 2.5 c/d - 10 mi total

Su: 6.25 mi easy

41.5 mi total in 6:06. Previous four weeks were 44.5, 45.3, 40.1, 47.1. Six straight weeks of 40+ miles is a first for me.

Okay week overall, was hoping for more total miles and a bigger workout Wednesday but have been dealing with some foot and lower core/groin soreness so decided not to push it too hard. Took Friday off and foot feels a lot better, though the core issue is still there...no sharp or debilitating pain but definitely takes a while to loosen up when starting a run.

Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there.

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HHW: FWIW, I had what sounds like a similar calf injury in April. After about a week there was minimal soreness/tightness and no issues with stairs...tried going for an easy run at that point and made it about three blocks before I realized that was a mistake and walked home before setting myself back too far. Took another ten days completely off and then was able to start with short, easy jogs. I did use my wife's Peloton a few times per week during the time off from running, which did not seem to aggravate the calf at all.

M34, 6’2, 178 lbs

Mon - AM - gym, PM - yoga

Tues - AM - 21.5 mi @ 19.3 mph, PM - gym

Wed - AM - PT, PM - yoga

Thurs - AM - 25.5 mi @ 18.0 mph, PM - gym

Fri - AM gym, PM - swimming/yoga

Sat - AM gym

Sun - 17.5 mi @ 18.9 mph (Wanted to go for 30+, but a popped tube in my rear tire derailed any hope for that. Ended up walking/riding 8 miles home since I don’t have a spare tube/tools yet)

Local rec centers opened up on an appointment basis, so I’ll be taking advantage of being able to swim again. Turns out they don’t like you aqua jogging. You have to keep swimming in a straight line. Can’t go across the lane you’re in or make a box in the deep end. #themoreyouknow

Female, 46, 5'4", 107

PRs 5:25/18:51/38:56/1:02:28/1:24:08/2:57:42

Goal races: ??? (there's a few local road miles that haven't been cancelled yet)

Goal times: 18:30 for 5K, 1:23:xx for half, sub-2:55 for full

Next races: Some road miles in July?

Non-running pandemic goals: 10 prone grip pull-ups (no kipping); 5 one handed push-ups each side.

65 miles

M: Upper body weights/core and streaming yoga

T: 12.5 miles on treadmill, including an alternating hill/tempo workout - two 60 second hills, then 12:30 minute tempo (6:48 pace per footpod - most likely faster due to footpod error), two more hills, 12:30 minute tempo (6:42 per foot pod - again, probably faster due to foot pod error), two more hills. Followed with leg strengthwork and streaming yoga.

W: 7 miles very easy outside (9:13), streaming yoga, 7 miles very easy on treadmill (8:56), plus drills and four hill strides.

Th: Upperbody weights/core in morning; streaming yoga in afternoon.

F: 12.5 miles- stared with a hill workout of 2 repeats of 2:00 strong on 3.0 incline, 1:30 easy, 0:30 fast, 1:00 easy. The treadmill then shut down on me, so I used this as an excuse to head to the track for some 200s - did 2 sets of 6x200 with 200 recovery - split each set as two hard, two harder, two harder still. Splits were 44/44/43/43/40/40 and 43/44/42/41/39/40. Followed with some leg strengthwork and streaming yoga.

Sa: 10.5 miles easy outside (9:12), plus an 800 on the track to calibrate the foot pod; then drills and four hill strides plus streaming yoga.

Su: 14 miles outside , including a workout of 2 miles at tempo (12:48 - split as 6:27/6:22) and 2x~half mile in 3:06 and 3:05. Followed with streaming yoga. Later did a 1 mile jog to test out a new pair of shoes, plus some drills.

Starting to reintroduce more traditional training. I'm very strong, but have some work to do to regain my top level aerobic fitness and top end speed (read 5K speed and faster). I'm not too worried about getting it back - it will come.

In other news, I started doing a few pull-ups any time I walked past my bar, and....I now have a strained rhomboid. So that's a few days off of pull-ups.

M/36/145

Goal - sub 450 mile attempt July 3rd

PRs (2020) - 9:30 3k, 16:29 5k

Good week, workout was a bit more “mile” specific this week, and ended it with a quality long run and a stepping stones attempt. I almost completed it...

M - 8 miles 7:22 (mostly grass)

Tu- 3 mile AM shakeout, PM - 3 up, W/O, 3 mile CD. Splits for w/o

Mile: 5:17

4x200- 34.3, 33.7, 33.2, 32.6

Mile: 5:25 (ouch)

4x200- 33.9, 33.1, 33.0, 30.2

W - 8 at 7:10 with some grass

Th- more grass 10 @ 7:16

F - 6 at 7:04

Sa - 10.4 at 7:44

Su - 16 at 6:29. Stepping stones. Tried to do 4. Made it 3 and 2/3. 2 warm up miles

Sets were:

6:38, 6:10, 5:51

6:36, 6:09, 5:49

6:39, 6:09, 5:49

6:40, 6:08, NOTHING LEFT

3 cool down

All in all a fun week. I’m planning on hurting for this mile. Might cut down the mileage a bit and focus on some shorter faster workouts in the coming weeks, but will it really help all that much? Maybe... we’ll find out.

6/22

M36, 5’10”, about 160

Road bests | 2020

5k - 15:20 (2006) | ∅

10k - 31:15 (2008) | ∅

10M - 51:52 (2009) | ∅

Half - 1:09:01 (2009) | 1:11:33 (A1A)

Full - 2:25:14 (2019) | ∅

Upcoming:

7/4 - RRTT Firecracker Challenge

Mo: AM - 8 @ 7:35 with some strides/reps; PM - 3 jog

Tu: AM - 10 @ 7:32, intervals*; PM - 2 jog

We: 10 @ 7:56

Th: AM - 8 @ 7:49, hill reps**; PM - 4 @ 8:45

Fr: 10 @ 8:15

Sa: 12 @ 6:25, tempoish***

Su: 3 @ 8:19

Total: 70 miles

*3E, then 4 x (.5 H, .25 E, .25 H, .25 E), 2 jog. Hard intervals in 2:29, 1:17, 2:29, 1:15, 2:31, 1:19, 2:30, 1:12. Rest intervals average 2:16. Fairly flat dirt/asphalt road. Cool and cloudy (65 + 53). Got that lactate burn. Shuffled 10:00 pace on the cool down.

**16 x 30” hard, jog back down plus maybe 80 yards recovery (loop around grotto). North side of Capitol. Cloudy and 71 + 68. Shuffled the 2 mile cool down around 9:00 pace.

***Something like 2E + 8M + 2E. Ideally wanted to get on the track, but it was crowded again, so decided to do 12 at a decent pace. Started overheating (79 + 68) so decided to cool down the last 2 instead of going to the well. Splits 6:59, 6:22, 6:04, 6:03, 5:59, 5:52, 5:43, 5:44, 5:42, 5:42, 8:44, 8:00.

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Just drove to Michigan and will be here for the week. Hoping the tracks are open and not too busy so I can get an idea of what mile pace might be.

M: off

T: 9

W: 8 w/ 3x10x30" fast/ jog + leg strength

Th: 90min bike + hike

F: 8 w/ strides

S: 11

S: 90min hike

10k TT next week. Just going to keep doing same course every month to tack fitness.