How much does genetics affect running?

sticks in craw wrote:

People can't admit they're wrong wrote:

I've read every post on this entire thread and not a single person has claimed that "talent doesn't matter". They/we are arguing against the comoletelt nonsensical suggestion that a guy with 'poor genetics' couldn't break 18 in the 5k. That's an idiotic statement and you know it, you're just trying to change the subject because you've realised it's wrong.

I do not know that. Many people can't even break 24. If you can break 18 you have very good genetics.

I've never met any young male who trained seriously and couldn't break 24, that's an absolute crawl. 18's also really not very fast. It's barely under 6 minutes per mile. Many people can run that sort of time just off of football fitness. If you're failing to break 18 and blaming genetics you're just making an excuse for your terrible mentality and awful work ethic towards training.

For a comparison, last year my nephew, who's 15, went to a parkrun with a bunch of his football mates. None of them ran, all of them played football (soccer). There were 8 of them altogether. The slowest guy ran 26:XX and the fastest ran 18:XX. My nephew came in at 22:30. There's no way any of them would fail to break 18 with proper training and I won't accept the argument that all 8 of them just happened to have 'good genetics'.

Sorry, I meant to put that there's no way any of them would fail to break 24.

However, I'm certain that they would all be easily capable of sub-18.

It has nothing to do with you knowing them or not. I have not known many professional athletes yet there are thousands of them. Ask a gym teacher and they will confirm that all of the training possible can't get some kids to 20 minutes and can't get but a few under 18 minutes.

I grew up with a kid that ended up winning an NCAA D1 XC title. We were the same age(born 3 days after me at the same hospital). We went to the same schools, raised in a similar environment. We had the same coach in HS. Same team. We trained similar amounts. If anything I put in a few more miles. We were both skinny.

Despite almost everything about our surroundings being similar, he was in a COMPLETELY different league.

He won state XC as a freshman. I didn't even make the varsity squad. Even though we ran together every day...all the same training. If I came within 90 seconds of him for a 5K it was a good day for me. And I was far better than most on the team. No matter how hard I tried, I could never match those genes.

runnER/DR wrote:

I grew up with a kid that ended up winning an NCAA D1 XC title. We were the same age(born 3 days after me at the same hospital). We went to the same schools, raised in a similar environment. We had the same coach in HS. Same team. We trained similar amounts.

These stories are amazing to me. Thank you for sharing.

Dunno. Was thinking of the Fury & Klitschko brothers in boxing. But that's just a boxing lifestyle and they just got into it somehow and they were passionate. No reason 2-3 brothers that are neighbors of Klitschkos could have have done the same if they went that route.

I look at Julien Wanders. His family aren't athletes, and in fact are rather wealthy, yet one day Julien drops the xbox controller (well actually he's still A Fortnite player) and decides he wants to be one of the fastest in the world. Just a regular boy in Switzerland. Look at him now. Practically anyone can do it.

People can't admit they're wrong wrote:

Sorry, I meant to put that there's no way any of them would fail to break 24.

However, I'm certain that they would all be easily capable of sub-18.

The problem you fail to see is that you are looking at people who have at least some interest in some form of athletics because they have some genetic aptitude for athleticism. That's not the general population.

Also I personally can run well under 18 at 50. Observing the struggles of others has no bearing on my ability.

Gene-etiks wrote:

Dunno. Was thinking of the Fury & Klitschko brothers in boxing. But that's just a boxing lifestyle and they just got into it somehow and they were passionate. No reason 2-3 brothers that are neighbors of Klitschkos could have have done the same if they went that route.

I look at Julien Wanders. His family aren't athletes, and in fact are rather wealthy, yet one day Julien drops the xbox controller (well actually he's still A Fortnite player) and decides he wants to be one of the fastest in the world. Just a regular boy in Switzerland. Look at him now. Practically anyone can do it.

But I bet you didn't.

Your mindset matters as much as, if not more than your genes. Again and again people keep saying. "I did the same training as person X and he was much slower/faster."

That doesn't matter! Even if you do the exact same sessions every day of the year, it doesn't mean you've got the same mindset!

If you're doing some 800's in training and you're capable of running each rep in 2:20, but you do the first few in 2:15 and burn yourself out, or you just run them all in 2:30 and don't put the effort in, you're not gonna get the same benefit from the session as someone who actually runs the times they are capable of.

Even if two people are the exact same level of fitness, they are still drastically affected by their MINDSET.

For example, if two guys both have the ability to run the same 5k time:

Guy A starts experiencing discomfort 2km in, he can't handle the discomfort so he slows down.

Guy B pushes through the pain and maintains his pace all the way to the line despite the immense pain he's experiencing.

Guy A sprints the last 200m so they both appear to be equally as tired at the end.

Guy A has finished 30 seconds behind so he thinks "There's no way I can beat you, your genetics are superior blah blah blah".

I went for a run the other day with my brother and towards the end he was saying "I can't, I'm dead, I need to slow down." clearly if he's able to talk full sentences he's not in as much pain as he's making out to be in. This shows to me that my brother could never be a great runner because he's not willing to push himself enough. Although, it is possible he could improve his mindset in the future.

I believe one big thing that separates me from someone faster than myself is that they've got more mental strength and can endure more pain without complaint. If it were possible to measure pain numerically, if I reach level 10 in pain and then I slow down because it hurts, they might be able to get to level 15 before they slow down.

So the only difference between an Olympic champion and the typical 18 min road racer dude is the mental ability to withstand pain???

That's insulting to both the elite athlete and the road racer. Both of these people could be maxing out their ability, it's just that one has a much much higher end than the other.

Nope. Enduring pain is really not a big difference maker in race times. We don't get faster by becoming more pain resistant. We get fitter so that we go faster with the same degree of pain, maybe even less actually. Typically great races are much lower on the pain scale than a crappy one.

You are correct. The best runners appear to not push themselves to a point of feeling pain while the slow runners try their hardest knowing they are minutes behind better runners.

"MINDSET" has nothing to do with it. When you're training or racing with someone that has significantly more talent, eventually your legs and arms cannot move fast enough to keep up. At the same fast pace, you're going to be redlining, they're going to be comfortable and no level of mental toughness is going to allow you to keep up. There is no mind over matter in distance running.

Genetics lets the 'burnout' kid you knew in sixth grade still run a 51 quarter in eighth grade, despite not being on the track team.

And you know that hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work, but did you know that at a certain point the talented do work? Then all the hard work you do won't make one bit of difference. You can't beat genetics.

Short time development is largely affected by tour genetics. Your long term not nearly as much. Enviroment also has something to say. But you should train according to your genetic expression. Ex: Ace B makes you bad at altitude, but not if you are already born and lived at altitude. That's why we see Kenyans with different genetic expression make it at altitude but not as many caucasian athletes with the same genetic expression. Enviroment and training give people with not favorable genetic expression a chance to change the tides.

Some people are born with their fast twitch fibers working almost as slow twitch but others do not. That makes it more difficult for a speedster to run long distance without training.

Also it's easier for someone with speed to gain endurance than the other way around because almost every activity you do such as walking is slow twitch and resist your sprint training

I am reminded of a quote which I recall was attributed to the great marathoner Juma Ikangaa:

"The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare."

I'm not quite sure what role 'genetics' play in the success of distance running.

I do know that 'talent' is subjective but the more of it you have the more propensity you will have to develop it.

SO, do talented people work harder at their gift to maximize it than less talented people do?

I think that the less talented work harder to develop in running than the more talented do. Many 18 minute 5k runnrrs spend their lives eating right and sleeping right and run and lift and stretch 2 hours every day just to run 17:59 while world class talented guys go through the motions not enjoying it, just so they can earn a scholarship and the earn a living for a few years. They run 13:20 at 23 years old and end up weighing 200 pounds at 35.