15x400m at 3k pace

I did a similar workout a few months ago. 3x(5x400) with 90" between reps and 3'between sets. It really wasn't too difficult until the last half of the last set. Just 2 weeks later I ran almost the same pace for a 3200 time trial.

evening wrote:

Runner10287 wrote:

Rule of thumb. The volume of the workout shouldn't exceed the pace of the workout. So 6k of intervals should be run at 6k pace. 8x400 at 3k pace is more sensible.

This is bad advice! I routinely run up to 2k of intervals at 800 pace, 3k of intervals at 1500 pace, 4.5k of intervals at 2k pace, 5k+ of intervals at 3k pace, and 6k of intervals at 5k pace.

You don't need to kill yourself in training, but you won't improve with such conservative training.

For 800 and mile pace you can and should get in more than 800 or mile of volume as long as the recovery interval is appropriate. I have always felt that at 3k/2 mile is where you don't want to get in much more volume. Like 4k worth of work is one thing but 6k is double the distance.

Not that hard wrote:

I did a similar workout a few months ago. 3x(5x400) with 90" between reps and 3'between sets. It really wasn't too difficult until the last half of the last set. Just 2 weeks later I ran almost the same pace for a 3200 time trial.

Breaking it up into sets moves the goal post slightly.

Not that hard wrote:

I did a similar workout a few months ago. 3x(5x400) with 90" between reps and 3'between sets. It really wasn't too difficult until the last half of the last set. Just 2 weeks later I ran almost the same pace for a 3200 time trial.

There's a big difference between 15x400 and 3x5x400...

evening wrote:

I mean ... a 45s/100m jog is 12 min mile pace, which is basically a walk ... Normally a jog rest in a workout is around 8 min mile pace.

Also, that workout you're referring to was at 5k pace, not 3k pace. She ran a 9:39 2mi, which is equal to a 15:30 5k. 4xmile with 2:30 r is a doable workout. 4xmile @ 3k, not so much.

This is lets run where 8 min mile pace is considered too hard.

And yeah the slight differences between 3k and 5k paces really show up when your doing workouts.

evening wrote:

Not that hard wrote:

I did a similar workout a few months ago. 3x(5x400) with 90" between reps and 3'between sets. It really wasn't too difficult until the last half of the last set. Just 2 weeks later I ran almost the same pace for a 3200 time trial.

There's a big difference between 15x400 and 3x5x400...

The is also a huge difference between 45-60s of rest and 90s in addition to those 3 mins between sets. It is amazing what even 15s (going from 45 to 60 or 60 to 75) does for your ability to keep cranking out intervals.

The volume in the workout is also dependent on the level and experience of the athlete. If you have a 9th grader who has minimal running experience, 6k of volume would be A LOT!! If you have a Senior who has run year round for 3-4 years, it isn't too much for early season. Probably on the high end of volume for a high school athlete in most programs. For my teams, the distance runners probably average 4k-5k of volume in workouts during the meat of the season.

Breakup into sets of 2 or 3 (3 sets of 5 or 2 sets 8).

1-minute rest (walk/jog) between each w/ 3 min between sets.

Once this becomes reasonably comfortable (not easy but firm) you can trim the recovery to 45 secs per repeat and 2 minutes between sets.

Once this becomes comfortable (not easy but firm) you can trim the 3k date pace down and start over. The key is to hit your target times but not killing yourself to do so.

"Go Run One"

evening wrote:

I mean it depends of the purpose of the workout, but assuming the goal is a solid difficulty, race pace prep workout with around 1:1 rest, maybe more for the 800 pace reps.

800 : 2k, in 200-300m reps

1500 : 4k, in 400m/500m reps

3k : 5k, in 500m-1000m reps

5k : 7k, in 1000-1600m reps

10k: 8-10k in 1600m-2000m reps ? I don't run this distance very much. I just did 6x1000m/200j @ 10k before running my pr, but it was a pretty soft workout. Probably could've done 3-4 more reps to make it difficult

I don't really run the others so ?

In my opinion those volume are for experienced runners with good mileage and level. 15' or below in the 5000m.

For slower and less experienced runners, I would say :

800 : 1600-2000

1500 : 2400-3000

3000 : 3600-4500

5000 : 5-6

10k : 6-8

runkeller wrote:

The volume in the workout is also dependent on the level and experience of the athlete. If you have a 9th grader who has minimal running experience, 6k of volume would be A LOT!! If you have a Senior who has run year round for 3-4 years, it isn't too much for early season. Probably on the high end of volume for a high school athlete in most programs. For my teams, the distance runners probably average 4k-5k of volume in workouts during the meat of the season.

All at 3k pace though?

Hardloper wrote:

Impala31 wrote:

15x400 @ 3k pace is a hard workout.

No point doing 6k total @3k pace unless your are at sub elite level in my opinion.

Wrong. 15x400 can be done at 3k pace with 100m to 200m jog of recovery.

A lot of very tough workouts can be done... but that`s of no importance. You must ask yourself "Why should I do this workout ? What individual pace is the best for me and my development?

What will I gain ? "

- Head coach of LRC -

how 'bout 6 x 800 @ 5K current race pace (lap jog) ... followed by 8 x 200 @ 1500 effort (1 minute standing rest).

Shorter Than, Frank wrote:

how 'bout 6 x 800 @ 5K current race pace (lap jog) ... followed by 8 x 200 @ 1500 effort (1 minute standing rest).

looks good, I would only do 4-6x200, but depending on your level 8 can be good

LRP. This is the best response on here.

I had a girl run 15x 400 on a 1 minute standing recovery. It ended up right around her 3200 pace. She was the type of kid who relied on trying to hit even splits, so was super concerned that every rep be right on. She was a solid miler but better 2 miler and took 3rd at USA Juniors 5k meet.

I probably wouldn’t use that workout anymore. It’s way too hard for most kids, but it was part of a very successful season for her. A few years later, I’d have kids do the workout at 5k pace on 2 minute send offs. So a kid running 80s would get 40 seconds rest. Top guys would do 15. Second group of lower mileage guys would take off every 5th one so they’d get 3 x 4 x 400. It would allow them to run with the top guys, but they’d be closer to 2 mile pace. My best guy from those years thrived off that type of stuff and long hard tempo efforts. but if we tried to run mile pace in training, he quickly became over trained.

Still other kids who ended up being pretty good could never have done either of those workouts , but they were more 800-1600 guys and thrives on faster reps with longer rest.

I should add, that in retrospect, the 15x400 for the girl way back when was probably too hard and she ran well despite that workout (and others similar), rather than because of it.

Of course you can do 400s at 3000m pace.

How hard that workout is really depends on the level and type of distance runner you are talking about. The recovery time is just one variable.

A reasonable recovery duration is set to begin another rep every 2.5'

Another misnomer here is the 'standing rest'. There really is no such thing.

A wait recovery of 1' or so usually includes 50-60m covered by the athlete.

dsrunner wrote:

Of course you can do 400s at 3000m pace.

How hard that workout is really depends on the level and type of distance runner you are talking about. The recovery time is just one variable.

A reasonable recovery duration is set to begin another rep every 2.5'

Another misnomer here is the 'standing rest'. There really is no such thing.

A wait recovery of 1' or so usually includes 50-60m covered by the athlete.

12 x 400 at 3k pace with 200 jog is about as much as I would suggest. And I'd probably start it a little slower, and work down.

first thx for all the answers. it really helps:)

but i have really problems with the longer intervals like 3x1600m.

I remembered a time where I could run 3x1600m in approximately 5:55min with 3 min walking rest and only ran 19.20 min(5K. before my pr(18:40 MIN 5K) 2week I did 3x1600m at 5.39min with 3min walking rest.

I even could do 3x2000m at my 5k pace with very short rests. only 3200m intervals for 10k show me where I am. I dont know why. I run soon 20years:)

Do less intervalls then and work on tempo runs from 20 to 1h at LT pace to Marathon pace.

What is your mileage and long runs? You might focus on this as well