Training impatience of Americans/Europeans and East African dominance

10 out of 25 disproportionately high? East Africa has a population of around 300 million - with a running culture! Ethiopia not interested in the 1500? So they're not interested in the premier track distance event?? Maybe you mean they don't have the talent? You can say that about any country that doesn't do well in an event - they're simply not interested. lol.

You also forgot some Aussies & Poles that are doing quite well in the 1500 no? Actually, the thing is Europeans are much faster now vs 10 years ago with north Africans staying about the same. At that time it would usually be 16-18 east Africans in the top 25. I'm just curious to see if Americans will catch up. Right now the two fastest American guys are about as fast as the two fastest French guys.

What's your goalpost here?

You said "caught up" and "are surpassing".

300 million / 7.8 billion = 3.8%

10/25 = 40%

Huh?

Please list what countries throw in any noticeable participation into the 1500.

No, India, China, Pakistan, Egypt, Brazil, Bangladesh, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Mexico, Nigeria, and dozens of other countries do not do that. So you can remove 7 billion from your equation.

going down wrote:

Huh?

Please list what countries throw in any noticeable participation into the 1500.

No, India, China, Pakistan, Egypt, Brazil, Bangladesh, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Mexico, Nigeria, and dozens of other countries do not do that. So you can remove 7 billion from your equation.

India, China, Pakistan, Egypt, Brazil, Bangladesh, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Mexico, Nigeria, and dozens of other countries do not do that?

So they're not interested in the premier track distance event?? Maybe you mean they don't have the talent?

If we want to compare apples to apples, we must do the same exercise for "East Africa", e.g note Ethiopia's noticeable non-participation; we can remove 100 million right there. We should only list selected tribes of Kenya, with noticeable participation, and even less from Uganda, Eritrea, Sudan, Djibouti, Tanzania, Somalia, etc. with low noticeable participation.

Again, what's your goalpost here? You said "caught up" and "are surpassing", to describe performances that have just "caught up", but not "surpassed" the 1980s-era performances of Coe, Cram, and Ovett. You also said 400 and 400H. You seem to have completely abandoned these earlier statements. Shall I interpret this abandonment as a concession that they were nonsense?

Too many HS/college coaches want SUCCESS!

And that means having the runner run fast asap.

No HS coach with a phenom in hands wants to let him progress slowly and gradually only for someone else to get credit for the phenom's results years later.

And then many kids burn out.

Well said. I think impatience and ego are tied together. With social media culture the western world is full of ego maniacs. Everyone wants to show themselves as a success at all costs.

Ahh, I see. You're just being purposely thick. Show me participation in distance running in any of those large countries listed. Ethiopia, unlike those, is BIG into distance running and have had notable competitors from 800 meters on up for the last few decades. They've always had a big following for the 1500 but you know that already. The only goalposts are in your head.

Sure, if we want to compare your apples to your apples we'd also have to concede that the area of the European Alps has by far the most superior athletes for downhill skiing as they scoop up 90 % of medals. It's amazing that an area with .008% of the worlds population is so incredibly dominant. Those Bangladeshi just can't compete. They surely tried but you know, just don't have the genetics.

Should have been obvious to any running fan by what I meant by E..African 400/400H presence. Didn't think that needed an explanation. Just a few years ago I kind of remember a certain Kenyan winning a 400H medal and a few other Kenyans doing very well. No Kenyans of significance any longer. There were two e Africans in the 400m semifinal in 1996...with one winning a medal. Now there is one of significance. Do you need any more explanation?

Instead of propping up high school coaches who win state titles we should revere the ones whose runners go on to success in college and beyond.

Runner10287 wrote:

Instead of propping up high school coaches who win state titles we should revere the ones whose runners go on to success in college and beyond.

Can you name a single high. school coach who has multiple runners go on to sucess in college? Seriously how many guys have had more than say 3 XC AA every? And of the ones that have done it, how many aren't winning state titles on a regular basis?

Alacrity wrote:

Thanks for the share rekrunner. What I found most interesting was:

"From Clyde Hart (Michael Johnson's coach):

So what is Hart's secret? It's two simple percentages that lead up to world-record performances.

Hart said he trains his sprinters like milers and half-milers. When track aficionados and know-it-alls believed that a 400-meter runner needed 90 percent anaerobic speed and only 10 percent aerobic strength, Hart was training his athletes at a 60/40 anaerobic to aerobic.

"Time has shown me that the aerobic benefits far outweigh the anaerobic benefits," he said. "You put money in the bank when you train. To me, anaerobic is withdrawing money from the bank and aerobic is putting it back in."

"If you go out and do a lot of anaerobic running, you might as well be racing."

Ignore what he says and go look at his training. His runners were not training like 1500m runners or even most 800m guys. He was doing longer reps than a lot of 400m guys (i.e. regularly did 600/800m intervals) but Michael johnson wasn't running 40-50mpw or anything. There was a crap load of highly anaerboic sessions (things like 3x350 with 5 mins rest) and pure speed (50ms)

I thought you were talking about 1500m, i.e. "the premier track distance event" -- not "distance running", and not "downhill skiing".

If that is your best explanation of 400/400H, I do not need any further explanation from you.

Ethiopia's had some recent success at the 1500m, on both sides, so while it doesn't dominate the event like the 5 and 10, it is among the best in the world at it. In the past few years, they've had 4 guys run sub 3:32, Aman Wote (best of 3:29.91 and a bunch of performances in this category), Gebremedhin, Wondimu, and Samuel Tefera, who has the potential to contend for many medals in the future. On the distaff side, Genzebe Dibaba has the world record at 3:50.07, Gudaf Tsegay just took bronze in 3:54.38 at World's last year, Aregawi ran 3:56, Seyaum ran 3:58, Burka ran 3:58 as well, Dulecha in 2000 ran 3:59, and Embaye and Besu Sado also ran 3:59. So, they've been fairly strong on both sides. Of course, Defar and Tirunesh Dibaba, both fantastic closers in around 58 in 5000 meter races, as well as Ayana, who ran something like 1:56 at the end of a 5000m, would have figured in the all-time 1500m lists had they tried the event much. How all these athletes got to this ability is another question. I'm sure Jos Hermens, supposedly so frank with the press, knows a lot about that.

14:12 5000m is worth about 3:53.6-3:53.8 1500m, according to IAAF points table.

Hmmmm....Interesting,

I've been posting on this subject for years and most recently a couple of weeks ago in response to high mileage proponents Sara Hall and "Mom" coach Hunter. Let young athletes grow into their bodies and develop over time. If you take the average 14-year-old freshman and allow the "Talent-Quality" factor to outweigh the "Quantity" factor with training/racing and then slowly increase the "Quantity" factor through high school and college to where it is equal with or close to the "Talent-Quality" factor you'll have a well-adjusted athlete both physically and mentally who is prepared to take on the rigors of being a professional runner. That being said, each athlete is different, and not all "Quantity" and or "Talent-Quality" will be the same with regard to mileage and workouts and this, of course, needs to be adjusted accordingly. Nonetheless, no need for high mileage during high school (50-60 mi max) and or college (70-80 mi max). There will be plenty of time to bang out miles in your early-mid 20's and after which you can then maximize your full potential.

Patience, Patience, Patience.

"Go Run One"

Yes, some success at the 1500m, while they don't dominate the event like the 5 and 10, nor like the Kenyans.

The women have had better recent success than the men, but if someone is saying "everyone has caught up to the east africans and are surpassing them", this does not describe the women's 1500m.

Adding my few cents as an East African but, more importantly, as a Ugandan: track and field here is not as planned or organised as in, for example, the United States. The majority of the Ethiopians/Kenyans [& Ugandans] you see getting models run because of community i.e. because everyone around them is running. That's why, especially in the case of Kenya and Uganda, most of them are from particular regions/tribes.

I am sure if our schools and universities focussed as much on track and field as other nations, we'd have our Bolts and whoever the 400m guy is today.

Funnily enough, even with minimal and usually inferior training, you have athletes from the region participating at the top levels. I've been following Halimah Nakaayi for close to six years, when she was winning races in an empty national stadium and was the best runner in her discipline. A bit better training and management gold her gold in the Women's 800m. The same can be said about Musagala (1500m), who's among the top runners in that discipline. Not forgetting Winnie Nanyondo, who's also among the world's best runners in the 1500m (and that doesn't win she's won a medal).

The interesting thing: Musagala, Nakaayi, and Nanyondo are not Sebei (the Ugandan Kalenjin tribe), are not from high altitude areas, and were all advised against focussing on running while younger because of that fact. We leave running to the Kalenjins, and to them it's mostly distance running.

Tweak this a little, get younger talents from across the country to focus on running, get them the right resources and training, and you'll have eggs all over your face.

It all depends on how myostatin deficient you are.

The more myostatin deficient the better.

The bad part is not everyone gets to be myostatin deficient. And there are currently no known foods you can eat to decrease myostatin levels to increase overall muscle mass.