Sub 20 minute 5K at 50 years old?

600yd/600m man wrote:

Perspective:

World record 5K on road, 12:51 or 771 seconds. A 20 minute 5K or 1200 seconds. 20 minute 5K is 55.6420233% slower than 5K road WR.

World record 400m, 43.03. Multiply 43.03 x 1.556420233 = 66.97276265.

Racing sub-20 5K &/or sprinting sub-66.97 400m at age 50 is not that difficult.

What are your age adjusted times?

Haven't given it a crack two years since I last ran 19:30 at 60 but will do so again . What does get harder is getting back from no real training and a bit of over indulgence in drinks at the same time.

For perspective I was low to mid 15's as a 'youngster', and sub 18 in early 50's

I am Sam wrote:

600yd/600m man wrote:

Perspective:

World record 5K on road, 12:51 or 771 seconds. A 20 minute 5K or 1200 seconds. 20 minute 5K is 55.6420233% slower than 5K road WR.

World record 400m, 43.03. Multiply 43.03 x 1.556420233 = 66.97276265.

Racing sub-20 5K &/or sprinting sub-66.97 400m at age 50 is not that difficult.

What are your age adjusted times?

My race results are not important. I'm over 50. I have raced sub-20 5K over age 50.

That is very impressive I must say, and so well done for best so speedy.

Of course it is possible to achieve that, and given your background you should be plenty capable.

I have written a blog on what to focus on when running a 5k and so would suggest you give that a read at: mellrunclub.com

I have plenty of other content that I am sure you will find interesting.

Thanks

Paul

600yd/600m man wrote:

Perspective:

World record 5K on road, 12:51 or 771 seconds. A 20 minute 5K or 1200 seconds. 20 minute 5K is 55.6420233% slower than 5K road WR.

World record 400m, 43.03. Multiply 43.03 x 1.556420233 = 66.97276265.

Racing sub-20 5K &/or sprinting sub-66.97 400m at age 50 is not that difficult.

Not that difficult if you have a lot of talent, kept yourself in very good nick, and/or you ran a lot and were fast when you were younger.

Josheli wrote:

I appreciate the advice and the offer. Your story is pretty amazing, and I would consider you an outlier. Did you run when you were younger? I've found that people that ran competitively in hs/college/university can come back and still be fast, even after long lay offs. Something about muscle memory or lifetime miles or I don't know what...[/quote] In addition to that, genetics play a big part in the way your body responds to the training.

Josheli,

You do need Lydiard. Perhaps someone was just being dramatic.

I noticed a couple of things (being a Lydiard coach):

1. Two month-long (months: 7-9) hill phase is long.

2. You may not need a full-on hill phase, really.

Hill phase is for developing the lower leg muscle, especially type 2 and type 2B. You may be able to develop that just by incorporating a lot of hills in your regular running and having a three to four week "semi-hill phase" with hill repetitions. The pogo stick, bounding, and similar drills can be quite damaging for a 50-year-old. Also, the power developed from the hill phase really benefits middle distance runners more than 5,000m+. Although you will benefit from doing some sort of hill phase, I would use a little caution (consistency in training is almost more important than specific workout outcomes).

I would use the schedule you wrote out as principles rather than as a schedule. Or as a template. Adjust daily by how you feel.

Sub-20:00 5K at age 50 is 73.83% age-graded performance, which is pretty good. That equals 17:32 open performance. Sounds like your goal is spot on.

Anecdotally, in my experience, so far, it takes a while to re-develop fitness after a prolonged break. You know how people say, "it is easier to get fit on a comeback than it was the very first time"?

I think there is a statute of limitations on that. I had a decade off for three surgeries....

Back for a full-year, plus and the gains from this work is obvious and measurable, but it is taking some time......be consistent, enjoy the base phase, but instead of having a set date when you will end the base phase and move to hills, try this:

Weekly or every 10 days or so run an out and back effort on the same route each time at exactly the EFFORT (not pace - don't look at watch). Warm-up and warm-down and then run 30-minutes out as hard as possible without straining. Don't go to a marker, go to 30-minutes. Don't run for 30-minutes back, run to where you started from and you should see a small negative split if run properly. You should get faster on this effort, but eventually, you will see diminishing returns, THEN is when you want to move onto another phase. Some people respond quickly and some take some time to stop improving.

Alternatively, you can do the same thing but to a marker, each week. At roughly the same amount of time....the fitter you get, the further you will go past the starting point on the return.

The purpose is to put good pressure on the cardiovascular system for a sustained effort without straining. Don't race it. Racing in the base phase is like pulling up a sapling that you planted to check to see if the roots are healthy, killing the tree in the process.....

In the age of Strava it is almost a paradigm shifting effort. I have had to explain this thing half a dozen times to some people, who, for example, will look at their watch while running and then report, "oh yea, I was running 4:30s for X amount of time, man." Or "I tried to get to 4:10s...."

On that out and back run, that is completely defeating the purpose. You should finish and wonder what pace and time it took on the return and THEN look at the watch.

Done properly it is such a wonderful AT stimulus run.

Cheers,

I like Wet Coast’s post.

I know nothing about Lydiard, or distance training in general, and I 5k trained pretty much opposite what he wrote—but I think it makes great sense.

I know that sounds worthless, but I would use the same type of effort-based approach if asked how an aspiring sprinter in your position should be training.

??

600yd/600m man wrote:

Perspective:

World record 5K on road, 12:51 or 771 seconds. A 20 minute 5K or 1200 seconds. 20 minute 5K is 55.6420233% slower than 5K road WR.

World record 400m, 43.03. Multiply 43.03 x 1.556420233 = 66.97276265.

Racing sub-20 5K &/or sprinting sub-66.97 400m at age 50 is not that difficult.

I agree to an extent. In "letsrun" world it's not that difficult, but outside of the running bubble it's nearly super human. I just randomly googled "5k race results" and hit on this site:

Clicking through the first 20 5K races and only 2 people over 50 ran faster than 20 minutes. That probably says more about the American (or Arkansas) population than the difficulty of running a 20 minute 5k.

But, this is my individual goal, not a goal to compare my abilities with other people, or to prove whether a sub-20 minute 5K is "not that difficult". It's a goal to get and keep me motivated, nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks for this. I agree my "plan" needs some more specifics and thought. Running hills for 2 months seems excessive. And I do adjust daily, I even took today off because my Achilles flared up. Mentally, I know I'll need to throw in different workouts occasionally to keep it interesting, I don't think I can just do 24-30 weeks straight of easy/tempo/fartlek. Question about your effort run though. So you're saying weekly do a 80~90 minute run? w/u, 30 minutes out, 30 minutes back, c/d? And what does "hard as possible without straining" mean? If I'm not straining, I wouldn't think it would be "hard", and if it's not hard, it's ... well ... easy. Probably making this more difficult than it needs to be.

Wet Coast wrote:

Weekly or every 10 days or so run an out and back effort on the same route each time at exactly the EFFORT (not pace - don't look at watch). Warm-up and warm-down and then run 30-minutes out as hard as possible without straining. Don't go to a marker, go to 30-minutes. Don't run for 30-minutes back, run to where you started from and you should see a small negative split if run properly. You should get faster on this effort, but eventually, you will see diminishing returns, THEN is when you want to move onto another phase. Some people respond quickly and some take some time to stop improving.

,

3K warm-up

3K warm-down

People don't warm-up and warm-down slow enough. Just think about that - the stimulus has been done.

30-minutes out as hard as possible without straining.

Return on the same route exactly.

You should finish saying "I could have run faster if I had to, but I am glad I didn't."

The feeling of the 60-minute or less run should be around half-marathon race effort or if you can run a sub-70-minute half-marathon, then find out was is anaerobic threshold pace for you.

Every year for the past 7 years (age 50-57), I made it a goal to run sub-6 for the mile and sub-20 for a 5k. Here is what has worked for me. I do the mile goal first with the following plan.

http://www.masterstrack.com/saved/train/middlestiller.html

As I've gotten older, I've cut my longest run shorter, do better with rest days (2/week), and always do one "hard day" per week. Once I can run a sub-6 mile, then the sub-20 5k is usually 2-4 weeks away. Once a week for my hard day, I'll run sub-20 pace for increasingly longer distances (e.g., 1.5 miles, 2 miles, 2. 5).

My mileage is very modest at 15-25 mpw. It's important to stay injury free. This last year at age 57 my mile was 5:36 (which I really worked on) and my 5k was high 19:50s.

Summary

1. Consistency trumps heroism: “Do the workout that you can recover from not the workout you can do.” Constantina Dita, Olympic marathon gold medalist in 2008

2. My reality in my 50s: “The older I am, the faster I used to be.”

I can assure you: you will take longer to recover from workouts, heal from injuries, and get back in shape.

3. Run on grass or trails as much as possible: Your joints will thank you.

4. Do at least one high intensity workout per week.

5. Listen to your body.

If my legs feel like lead, my breathing is heavy, or my pulse is higher than usual, then I slow down, cut my workout short, or take a rest day. For me, these factors are often a sign of overwork or impending sickness.

6. Stay trim: A healthy weight is free speed.

7. Lift some weights/do strength work: You’re only as strong as your weakest link. For arms, I try to stay at 10 pull ups and 50 push-ups; one-legged squats work for my leg strength.

Good luck! That's a fun goal. I'm trying to keep sub-6 and sub-20 through age 60.

Arete, this is spot in I think.

You only need modest mileage, and I agree on the longer runs especially. I find keeping the 'long run' around 60-80mins, maybe at most 90mins helps greatly, in fact don't even treat or call it a long run.

Unless your 35 stone, 50-55 really isn't that old at all. With your previous just doing consistent 20-30 mile weeks will get you there in 6-12 months easily. No fancy plans or workouts needed, just a weekly or 2 'hard/controlled effort'. Simples.

+1 for Arete

I think he hits the nail on the head.

With a 17 flat at 40, you should be able to run sub-20 at 50 as long as you stay injury-free. That is the only thing that matters, the rest is icing on the cake.

Have a loose plan, but try to run whatever you can recover from. As you have already found, doing hills-hills-hills is great for a young runner, but at 50 it is a recipe for getting Achilles Tendonitis. If it gets serious, you may be sidelined for months. If you can string 6 months of running three times a week with one hard workout without breaking down, you will be able to run sub-20.

BTW, if you Achilles "flared up", consider taking 3 days to a week off. In these days, just work on your strength. Better safe than sorry.

+1 for HITHEREYOU ... "With your previous times just doing consistent 20-30 mile weeks will get you there in 6-12 months easily. "

+1 for Mid D guy ... "With a 17 flat at 40, you should be able to run sub-20 at 50 as long as you stay injury-free. That is the only thing that matters, the rest is icing on the cake."

Mick's powerof10 results best list shows a 14:34 5000m back in 1997 so I'd suggest it's a story of always being fast and getting back into shape through work rather than a miraculous improvement in speed at at MV40 age.

I'm 72. I routinely run 5K's under 20 minutes. Mostly better than 19:30, so you've got a good 20 years to work on that goal.

Wow for JustGene ... that time age grades at 90+, which is world class.

19:59 for age 50 age grades to 72, which is consistent work but doable for our OP.