Is Cheruiyot's wire-to-wire 3:29 the best 1500 performance ever?

This site:

https://www.hillrunner.com/jim2/id39.html#:~:text=But%20by%20running%20directly%20behind,about%204%20seconds%20per%20lap

.

Indicates that at mile WR pace, a runner might save around 1.66 seconds per lap. El G ran his WR with Ngeny pacing (I believe?) and ran about 1200 with Ngeny ahead. That could be about a 3-5 second difference over the course of the race, making Cheruiyot's 3:29 leading the whole way potentially roughly equivalent to the 3:26.

I think for me, looking back at all these, it's hard to not think Kip Keino's 3:34 at altitude is the best, but Tim C is probably right there for me. Obviously El G's Athens race is one of the most thrilling, but considering it was essentially an 800 it just doesn't quite do it for me. I'd put his WR as 3rd most impressive.

birdbeard wrote:

This site:

https://www.hillrunner.com/jim2/id39.html#:~:text=But%20by%20running%20directly%20behind,about%204%20seconds%20per%20lap

.

Indicates that at mile WR pace, a runner might save around 1.66 seconds per lap. El G ran his WR with Ngeny pacing (I believe?) and ran about 1200 with Ngeny ahead. That could be about a 3-5 second difference over the course of the race, making Cheruiyot's 3:29 leading the whole way potentially roughly equivalent to the 3:26.

I think for me, looking back at all these, it's hard to not think Kip Keino's 3:34 at altitude is the best, but Tim C is probably right there for me. Obviously El G's Athens race is one of the most thrilling, but considering it was essentially an 800 it just doesn't quite do it for me. I'd put his WR as 3rd most impressive.

Interesting article. Thanks for the link.

I tend to agree that drafting or lack of, does impact on the athlete being drafted, but I doubt it is as much as 1.66 secs per lap. I would say it's less than a second per lap in still conditions.

Otherwise, Bayi's 3:32.2 would have been equivalent to a 3:26.0 with drafting! He may have been capable of approaching 3:30 in a paced effort with drafting, but nothing else in his career impressed as much as his Commonwealth win, and no evidence backs up a possible 3:26 ability.

Coe's 3:31.95 in 81 also had no drafting apart from about 50m on the first lap before the pacer shot off about 10m in front. To all intents and purposes it was a solo performance, made the more impressive by going through 400m in 52.4 (compared to 54.9 in Bayi's run) and 800m in 1:49.1 (Bayi -1:52.2). Now Coe had quite a few more impressive runs over the 1500 and mile over the course of his career, and others have conjectured that he could have run 3:28 back in 81.

John Macardle wrote:

Coevett wrote:

That's because we gave up due to the EPO Africans.

Spoken like a real loser.

So right.

Deanouk

You are correct that drafting is NOT worth more than 1 second per lap but you are LYING when you say Coe's performance was essentially solo. These lies do not serve your argument. Robinson was ahead of Coe for 800m. This helped Coe even if not much in terms of drafting.

Jimmycrackkorn wrote:

Deanouk

You are correct that drafting is NOT worth more than 1 second per lap but you are LYING when you say Coe's performance was essentially solo. These lies do not serve your argument. Robinson was ahead of Coe for 800m. This helped Coe even if not much in terms of drafting.

No. I was referring to someone who was discussing the benefits and cons of drafting and its worth in terms of time. I specifically mentioned drafting and the ‘almost’ total lack of drafting Coe had in that race. Having someone go off at 1000m WR pace and be 10m or more ahead of you at such a suicidal pace is no help whatsoever. Robinson offered no drafting, as with a solo run, and was so far ahead, running a ridiculous uneven pace, that he provided a hindrance. Coe knew he was a pacer and not running to win, so Coe was way in front of the field proper, for the entire distance. I know it’s not as ballsy as running from the front like Bayi did in a championship, but in terms of the total lack of drafting alone, it was worth substantially faster.

Robinson helped Coe in that race. You seem to ignore the fact that Robinson gave Coe a target to focus on for over half the race. It is true that Coe went out a bit too fast, and that hurt him a bit, but make no mistake, Robinson still helped Coe in that race.

Nonsense. Someone going through 300 in 38sec and 400m in 51.5 is helping no one in a 1500m race. Coe himself said that he would have been better off running it alone.

+1

No Deanouk. Robinson still helped Coe. Coe was NOT smart enough to run a more judicious pace. Face it, your idol has clay feet.

Jimmycrackkorn wrote:

No Deanouk. Robinson still helped Coe. Coe was NOT smart enough to run a more judicious pace. Face it, your idol has clay feet.

I wonder why ex-runner wonf point out the ignorance of this poster, clearly with an axe to grind against Coe?

Hmmm.....

Coevett wrote:

Jimmycrackkorn wrote:

No Deanouk. Robinson still helped Coe. Coe was NOT smart enough to run a more judicious pace. Face it, your idol has clay feet.

I wonder why ex-runner wonf point out the ignorance of this poster, clearly with an axe to grind against Coe?

Hmmm.....

OK, so a rabbit goes out too fast. Then we have Deanouk, who is not stupid, but is blinded by his Coe worship, and Coevett, who names himself after Coe and worships whites, blindly defending Coe who went out too fast because he was too stupid to realize that that the rabbit had gone berserk. Wow.

The two most devastating 1500m championship victories, where the winning margins were greatest, were Elliot in Rome and Keino at Mexico. I think Elliot gets the nod because he set a wr - breaking his own - while Keino had the advantage of altitude as an altitude-born and trained athlete over competition that lacked those performance factors.