Is Cheruiyot's wire-to-wire 3:29 the best 1500 performance ever?

LDoc wrote:

Birmingham is a mondo surface. It's very quick. My lowly PR was set there. The British 400m record was set there and still stands. You're right it's often windy, but what faces you also trails you.

Yes of course what faces you in terms of wind trails you BUT it does not give you as much back as what it takes away. In that way the wind is like a woman.

Welcome to the Twilight Zone wrote:

Ali Saidi Sief ran 3:30 in a storm in Gateshead in 2000. Second was around 3:36. Few people reckon it’s pound for pound right up there. He also ran 4:46.8 for 2000m that year, before of course getting popped.

Sief was busted for doping, so his performance shouldn't really be recognised in my book.

A lot of people under estimating Elliott's 3:36,0 Olympic win in 60. For many aficionados he was for a long time regarded as the GOAT due to unbeaten record, Olympic and Commonwealth titles and world records at both 1500 and 1 mile. His run on cinders in Rome had to be worth 3:33 on late 70's synthetic and more like 3:32 on the latest mondo tracks. And that's not even considering how much better the latest Nike spike (legal or illegal) would be compared to what he was running in 60 years ago. Ok, the depth of competition was not as great then, but that's not his fault! He decimated the best the world could offer at the time.

I think Keino's 3:34.9 was also very impressive, but I'm yet to be convinced that running at such altitude is such a handicap for those born and raised there. Many 800 guys, Doubell (and Rudisha's two 1:42 runs with very fast last 200's in the African Champs) amongst them, have set pbs at altitude, and I think for many it is an advantage over 800m. Therefore, it is reasonable to suppose that there will be some outliers who can run as fast (or at least very close to) over 1500 at altitude as at sea level. Ryun was clearly not one of these athletes, and it is ridiculous to claim that he and everybody else is affected equally by altitude. The altitude calculator cannot be a 1 formula fits all.

The suggestion that Keino's 3:34.9 in Mexico City was worth 3:27 or some such figure generated by a formula at sea level is utter nonsense. He ran plenty of times on synthetic tracks at sea level and never came anywhere near this time.

Cheruiyot's performance last year was one of the most impressive Championship races ever, and he had the ba**s to run it from the front. It is superior to EL G's rabbitted World Champs win in 3:27 (likely fuelled by EPO as well) , but I do have to wonder how much time he gained on athletes compared to previous decades from running on what was the very fastest mondo material and with carbon plated spikes. When put in context, is it really any superior to Elliott's WR 3:36 from 60 years ago!? I think not.

El Keniano wrote:

Kip Keino 1968

THANK YOU. Probably the greatest to that time, and certainly in the conversation now.

Deanouk wrote:

A lot of people under estimating Elliott's 3:36,0 Olympic win in 60.

Though Elliott did set a world record of 3:36.0 (eclipsing Jungwirth's record by 2.1 seconds), he broke that in Rome, where he ran 3:35.6.

If you watch the video, you can see that Elliott was really hurtin' on that homestraight in Rome. He was maxed.

lease wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

A lot of people under estimating Elliott's 3:36,0 Olympic win in 60.

Though Elliott did set a world record of 3:36.0 (eclipsing Jungwirth's record by 2.1 seconds), he broke that in Rome, where he ran 3:35.6.

If you watch the video, you can see that Elliott was really hurtin' on that homestraight in Rome. He was maxed.

Yes, thanks for the correction. I was aware he broke the WR twice, got the times the wrong way round. Makes his 3:35.6 run even more impressive for cinders.

aussie miler wrote:

I have to agree with Bayi ‘s 1500m world record has to be the bravest, most successful front running effort ever. He front ran a 1500m in a championship race, at a suicidal pace, and Won and BROKE THE WORLD RECORD! 3.32.16

Gun to tape! World record. One of the greatest track performances ever, in any event.

I was in the stands that day. Got it all on 8 mm. Such a great run

3.35.6. His first wr for the 1500 was 3.36.

I see that has already been corrected.

sillyman wrote:

aussie miler wrote:

I have to agree with Bayi ‘s 1500m world record has to be the bravest, most successful front running effort ever. He front ran a 1500m in a championship race, at a suicidal pace, and Won and BROKE THE WORLD RECORD! 3.32.16

Gun to tape! World record. One of the greatest track performances ever, in any event.

I was in the stands that day. Got it all on 8 mm. Such a great run

Another amazing note about Filbert Bayi is that he was 20 years old when he ran that world record. He just broke them with a 54.9 opening 400m.

sillyman wrote:

aussie miler wrote:

I have to agree with Bayi ‘s 1500m world record has to be the bravest, most successful front running effort ever. He front ran a 1500m in a championship race, at a suicidal pace, and Won and BROKE THE WORLD RECORD! 3.32.16

Gun to tape! World record. One of the greatest track performances ever, in any event.

I was in the stands that day. Got it all on 8 mm. Such a great run

I think Elliot's win was even better. Bayi won only by a metre from a closing Walker whereas Elliot had one of the biggest winning margins in championship history over the distance, of nearly 3 secs (similar to Keino at Mexico), achieved from a sustained finish over the last 600m. He could garrotte a top-flight field.

Best race ever 1500m final in Sevilla Spain.

El G, Noah, Estevez.

Mishmash wrote:

In that way the wind is like a woman.

Sometimes it blows and sometimes it doesn't?

Yes. That was awesome. That's how distance runners should run. It makes zero sense when you're a couple seconds faster than everyone else to not just go all out from the start, dominate, and win. The sit and kick sh!t is incredibly boring.

Can you imagine Noah lyles saying I'm going to see what everyone else does and then just run them down instead of going out to run as fast as he can.

Deanouk wrote:

Welcome to the Twilight Zone wrote:

Ali Saidi Sief ran 3:30 in a storm in Gateshead in 2000. Second was around 3:36. Few people reckon it’s pound for pound right up there. He also ran 4:46.8 for 2000m that year, before of course getting popped.

Sief was busted for doping, so his performance shouldn't really be recognised in my book.

Too funny - a lot more were also doping back in that era, Ali Saïdi-Sief just happened to get caught.

Though it's a mile - nothing can top the dream mile at the 2001 Bislett Games in Norway. A loaded field where Ali Saïdi-Sief amazingly beat Kenyan's best at the time (Lagat, Ngeny, Rotich) with a sizzling 3:48.23.

A North African performance to be remembered! ?

Hardloper wrote:

cbenson4 wrote:

My bad, he was 19, not 20.

Last quarter was 53-mid

You're right. My bad, I was getting confused between his 3:51.3 when he was 19 and his 3:51.1 when he was 20. The latter was run wire-to-wire and had a 53 last lap as you said. Phenomenal.

Let's just say this is the fastest wire-to-wire 1500 ever.

And that he smashed the wire-to-wire record of 3:32.

sticks in craw wrote:

Mishmash wrote:

In that way the wind is like a woman.

Sometimes it blows and sometimes it doesn't?

Whoa ...

Like a woman, it can also knock you off your feet. And you don't see it coming.

Let's just say this is the fastest wire-to-wire 1500 ever.

And that he smashed the wire-to-wire record of 3:32.

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I agree that Timothy made the best wire-to -wire 1500m ever. And the best CHAMPIONSHIP RUN too.

When talking about the all time greats let´s not forget newly deceased Sir Peter Snell.

Even though his win in Tokyo in the 1500m was not his fastest WATCH HIS KICK!

See the video (also with his win in the 800M) here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK0woLEtQQA

In other races he proved that he could also run fast breaking the 800m, half mile and mile WRs.

Peter Snell was my first running hero. My father bought our first TV at that time so our sports interested family could watch the Tokyo Olympics including PS´s double gold .

cbenson4 wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Last quarter was 53-mid

You're right. My bad, I was getting confused between his 3:51.3 when he was 19 and his 3:51.1 when he was 20. The latter was run wire-to-wire and had a 53 last lap as you said. Phenomenal.

Yeah it was incredible. His 3:33 1500 WR splits were too, the opening 400 was something like 61 before he took off and ran solo