"Keino's same run at sea-level as
~ 3'27+"
He beat Jim "3:24" Ryun by 3 seconds:
"Keino's same run at sea-level as
~ 3'27+"
He beat Jim "3:24" Ryun by 3 seconds:
Three seconds is a big difference in any 1500m. The three seconds between 3:26.00 and 3:29.xx even bigger. Perhaps you can argue that anything is the “best race” on a subjective scale but “best performance”? I just don’t see how.
Idk about the 1500, but I think Ryun's wire to wire 3:51.3 back then with such limited tech and knowledge is the greatest mile performance ever. He was 20 years old and broke the WR by 2 seconds. The final quarter mile was 56.0.
cbenson4 wrote:
Idk about the 1500, but I think Ryun's wire to wire 3:51.3 back then with such limited tech and knowledge is the greatest mile performance ever. He was 20 years old and broke the WR by 2 seconds. The final quarter mile was 56.0.
My bad, he was 19, not 20.
Coevett wrote:
Herb Elliott virtually solo ran 3:34 on a cinders track in 1960 in an Olympic final.
3:35.6 = 3:34? If you’re rounding, it’s a 3:36.
Coevett wrote:
Nobody in the history of the 1500m has been so far ahead of everybody else.
I’m pretty sure Keino (OGs) and Cheruiyot (WCs) have the record margins of victory. Both had more competition than Elliott ever did, making their huge victories all the more impressive.
Coevett wrote:
3:34 on a cinders track is the equivalent of 3:30 on the type of tracks El G ran on. El G didn't break 3:30 until he was around the same age as Herb Elliott. Full throttle EPO. Certainly not solo running.
If a 3:34 during Herb’s time converts to 3:30, then Herb (~3:36) would be a ~3:32 guy at 22. El G ran 3:33 at 19, 3:31 at 20, and 3:29 at 21.
Coevett wrote:
To believe that Herb Elliott doesn't count because he was white and whites can't run as fast as East Africans, is a level of hardcore racism that is actual mental illness.
No, he doesn’t count because he ran 60 years ago and obviously wouldn’t be competitive against modern professionals. His WR in the Olympics was an amazing performance, but his PB from that race is almost ten seconds slower than the current WR. Keino ran faster at altitude a mere 8 years later and had a bigger margin of victory against better runners than Herb ever raced.
Portsea Cerutsea wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Herb Elliott virtually solo ran 3:34 on a cinders track in 1960 in an Olympic final.
3:35.6 = 3:34? If you’re rounding, it’s a 3:36.
Coevett wrote:
Nobody in the history of the 1500m has been so far ahead of everybody else.
I’m pretty sure Keino (OGs) and Cheruiyot (WCs) have the record margins of victory. Both had more competition than Elliott ever did, making their huge victories all the more impressive.
Coevett wrote:
3:34 on a cinders track is the equivalent of 3:30 on the type of tracks El G ran on. El G didn't break 3:30 until he was around the same age as Herb Elliott. Full throttle EPO. Certainly not solo running.
If a 3:34 during Herb’s time converts to 3:30, then Herb (~3:36) would be a ~3:32 guy at 22. El G ran 3:33 at 19, 3:31 at 20, and 3:29 at 21.
Coevett wrote:
To believe that Herb Elliott doesn't count because he was white and whites can't run as fast as East Africans, is a level of hardcore racism that is actual mental illness.
No, he doesn’t count because he ran 60 years ago and obviously wouldn’t be competitive against modern professionals. His WR in the Olympics was an amazing performance, but his PB from that race is almost ten seconds slower than the current WR. Keino ran faster at altitude a mere 8 years later and had a bigger margin of victory against better runners than Herb ever raced.
Wrong. The guy closest to Elliott was the next WR holder.
sticks in craw wrote:
Wrong. The guy closest to Elliott was the next WR holder.
Do you mean Jazy? He was the WR holder for the mile (not the 1500m) for a year after Snell (not Elliott). Norpoth, Ryun, and (probably) Tummler were better at 1500m than Jazy. Liquori and Jipcho went on to be better at 1500m than Jazy was. So, yes, Keino had more competition than Elliott. The late-50s/early-60s and late-60s/early-70s aren’t comparable in level of competition.
Portsea Cerutsea wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Herb Elliott virtually solo ran 3:34 on a cinders track in 1960 in an Olympic final.
3:35.6 = 3:34? If you’re rounding, it’s a 3:36.
Coevett wrote:
Nobody in the history of the 1500m has been so far ahead of everybody else.
I’m pretty sure Keino (OGs) and Cheruiyot (WCs) have the record margins of victory. Both had more competition than Elliott ever did, making their huge victories all the more impressive.
Coevett wrote:
3:34 on a cinders track is the equivalent of 3:30 on the type of tracks El G ran on. El G didn't break 3:30 until he was around the same age as Herb Elliott. Full throttle EPO. Certainly not solo running.
If a 3:34 during Herb’s time converts to 3:30, then Herb (~3:36) would be a ~3:32 guy at 22. El G ran 3:33 at 19, 3:31 at 20, and 3:29 at 21.
Coevett wrote:
To believe that Herb Elliott doesn't count because he was white and whites can't run as fast as East Africans, is a level of hardcore racism that is actual mental illness.
No, he doesn’t count because he ran 60 years ago and obviously wouldn’t be competitive against modern professionals. His WR in the Olympics was an amazing performance, but his PB from that race is almost ten seconds slower than the current WR. Keino ran faster at altitude a mere 8 years later and had a bigger margin of victory against better runners than Herb ever raced.
Don’t trouble a pathological liar with facts.
ex-runner wrote:
Why Coevett can't understand that these factors exist in places like Kenya and Ethiopia I'll never know.
Do you really still think he has any interest to "understand"?
His only interest is to "prove" that the British runners from the 80s (and some others like Herb Elliott or "Jakob") are the best and that any African runner is a cheater. He definitely is not interested in the facts, as he has shown so many times when he changes the facts again and again to his liking.
birdbeard wrote:
Just rewatched it. I think it has an argument for the best 1500 ever over Hicham's 3:26. Anyone agree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQcTd4xZ44o&t=360s
Sifan Hassan's 3:51 would top that in my opinion.
westsouthrunner wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
Just rewatched it. I think it has an argument for the best 1500 ever over Hicham's 3:26. Anyone agree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQcTd4xZ44o&t=360sSifan Hassan's 3:51 would top that in my opinion.
Absolutely. I was (stupidly) just thinking of men's times. Hassan's 3:51 is the best 1500 of all time though, for sure.
birdbeard wrote:
westsouthrunner wrote:
Sifan Hassan's 3:51 would top that in my opinion.
Absolutely. I was (stupidly) just thinking of men's times. Hassan's 3:51 is the best 1500 of all time though, for sure.
Without doubt. Unbelievable performance.
Equivalent to Cheruiyot running 3:27.
cbenson4 wrote:
cbenson4 wrote:
Idk about the 1500, but I think Ryun's wire to wire 3:51.3 back then with such limited tech and knowledge is the greatest mile performance ever. He was 20 years old and broke the WR by 2 seconds. The final quarter mile was 56.0.
My bad, he was 19, not 20.
Last quarter was 53-mid
ex-runner wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
Just rewatched it. I think it has an argument for the best 1500 ever over Hicham's 3:26. Anyone agree?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQcTd4xZ44o&t=360sIt's a great race for sure.
Another great race from recent years is when Silas Kiplagat dispatched the favourite Kiprop with a suprise 3:27.
https://youtu.be/qc2GSBUZEMkAlso I know he got done for doping but the sheer ridiculousness of Kiprops 3:29 at Birmingham for a UK all-comers record also needs a mention. That is not a fast track, anyone who has run there knows this. It is often windy.
The distance from Kiprop to Iguider and then to the rest of the field says it all.
I wish they'd strike this performance from the books but everyone knows it was bogus anyway.
https://youtu.be/Wlt8FhJg2W0
None of these are actually great races - what did they do for the sport. The Kiprop in Birmingham race is probably the blueprint for why Track and Field is down the toilet and going bankrupt.
1) It's not even a race - it's a TT for 2 fantastic dopers in Kiprop and Iguider
2) Who, the crowd have little to no connection with at all and couldn't really care less about
Tell me how, other than a time on a clock which really is meaningless to 90% of spectators there and kind of meaningless anyway when you think about it, this is a great race. Exact same analysis is true for the Monaco race.
Seyta wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Yes it's absolutely racist on this board to suggest a non-black guy could run as fast as a black guy.
It isn't racist. It's stupid. They're so far behind it's laughable. For anybody whining about drugs, drug testing in athletics didn't even get implemented in 1968, and even then, it was hilariously inadequate. They were testing for substances like alcohol, and unable to detect steroids, even though they all knew they were being used.
All you have to do is look at the women from the Eastern Block to know that for decades, steroid use was rampant beyond anything the East Africans could manage with EPO.
Looking at it from a different perspective, just take most major professional sports in the US. In the NFL, a massively disproportionate number of Samoans play. In the NBA, the vast majority of players are black. You really think that with these utterly disproportionate numbers, genetics tend not to be a factor?
East Africans are exceptional distance runners, just like West Africans are exceptional sprinters. Africans as a whole also tend to be objectively worse at most academic subjects compared to Western and East-Asian counterparts. Whether or not that part is genetic is up for debate, although any studies confirming it will instantly be shouted down or discredited. Yes, this is very racist. That doesn't make it any less true.
This sounds like a dangerous and misguided line of thinking known as race realism. It has been used to justify horrific practices like slavery and genocide. Make no mistake, it is false. Just because there is a slightly different proportion of a given trait in a population, it says nothing about any individual in that population.
This is the greatest performance
No one has mentioned the weight penalty imposed by those big brass balls he had to haul through 1500m.
Coevett wrote:
Sorry, but you're a racist imbecile. Whether or not they have an advantage over longer distances, they clearly don't have any over the 1500m, let alone the 800m. That's even with the absurd belief that 'everybody has always doped'.
You may as well believe that white people have a genetic advantage at golf.
Kenyans do not dominate the 800m. They do not dominate the 1500m. This despite their near unique sporting culture devoted almost exclusively to running. Ethiopians aren't even a factor at 800m, and only recently produced a couple of elite 1500m runners.
If Kenyans had an advantage at 800/1500 they would absolutely dominate both events, as in having over a dozen each year running under 1:42 and and 3:28. Not 2 guys running a few tenths faster than a white guy did 40 years ago.
If it wasn't for Bernard Ouma, Scotland and Brighton would have more elite 1500m runners than the whole of Kenya right now. Let's not even mention the Ingebrigtsens who just gave Ouma's boys one hell of a beating. One Norwegian family better than the best of 80 million supposedly genetically advantaged Kenyans. So far behind, yeah.
Suggesting that white people have a 'genetic advantage at golf' is a poor comparison. You don't need to know much about physiology to know that golf is a sport that requires mostly skill and precision and close to no athleticism. The only genetic part about it would be some visual acuity and a gift of estimation. Most who take it up are rich people with a lot of resources.
Additionally, East Africans do indeed dominate mid-distances. It's true that some individuals are faster than others in singled-out performances, but East Africans do largely dominate most championship races in a high frequency. Name a white runner since Coe that has been as dominant. This is especially apparent given the fact that African elites also run fast times often. For example, a white elite runner and a black elite runner may have the same PR over the 1500m event, but the black runner is more likely to have run times very close to his PR on several occasions, while the white runner, based off of western culture, will rely more heavily on tactics and finishing speed than an overall fast pace to clench a win. This is a significantly more accurate measure of fitness than comparing PRs.
Ali Saidi Sief ran 3:30 in a storm in Gateshead in 2000. Second was around 3:36. Few people reckon it’s pound for pound right up there. He also ran 4:46.8 for 2000m that year, before of course getting popped.
I mean what's new? another topic ruined by racist coevett........
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