(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 6/14/20

I would put money down that it is a grade 2 calf strain. Definitely limping and in some pain but I don’t think I would be able to walk 3 miles home on a full tear. I guess I’ll see how things progress over the next few days before deciding if a drs appointment is warranted.

What a bummer. Was really starting to feel fit. First 2 reps today were 11:09 and 11:06 and was feeling pretty strong through the first mile of the last one.

HHW - Sorry to hear about the calf. These things always seem to crop up at the worst times w/r/t getting fit.

I jogged very slowly (8:30-9:00/mi) for an hour this morning. My soleus is sore, but manageable (used biofreeze and a compression sleeve). Got tighter towards the end but nothing like the other day. Did the 3min stretch on the stairs and 3x20 calf raises on flat ground afterwards. I'm fine with jogging very slowly if it allows me to keep running in some context.

To hop on the pain train, I rolled my ankle while at work yesterday and my foot is pretty swollen. Hopefully can minimize the number of days off, but will be at least three, can't imagine tomorrow it will be much better. I think I've only rolled it twice while running on trails and this is much worse then both of those.

-RS

darkwave wrote:

Jewbacca - could it be nerve pain? Just throwing out another option. I've been running through a right PTT issue for the last year or so - no MRI, but ultrasound showed that the tendon was perfectly healthy (though I have an accessory posterior tibial tendon, oddly enough, also healthy). Pain is burning, moves around, and does not change according to how much or how little I run, though milder than what . I'm starting to treat it like nerve pain (Graston at areas of potential nerve entrapment; some flossing) and it's improving.

Just a thought - I know you've been pretty exhaustive in your approach, so you may have already ruled this one out.

That's a really good question. I'd forgotten that my last PT was starting me on a flossing routine when things didn't improve. I scheduled with the new PT on Monday and will be sure to bring it up.

Does the pain ever feel sharp and intense, or is it always burning? I wouldn't describe mine as burning, but I suppose nerve pain could show up in a number of ways.

RunnerSam wrote:

To hop on the pain train, I rolled my ankle while at work yesterday and my foot is pretty swollen. Hopefully can minimize the number of days off, but will be at least three, can't imagine tomorrow it will be much better. I think I've only rolled it twice while running on trails and this is much worse then both of those.

-RS

That stinks, hope it recovers quickly... guess I won't be seeing you tonight. Heal fast!

Coach Jeff ROC wrote:

I'm a big fan of HR data so I'm curious about your HRmax. Our times and goals are in the same ballpark. When I'm fit, I'm sub 20 in a 5k and I really ought to be able to run a 1:30 HM (though the only time I managed to do that was during the first half of Boston... I did NOT repeat that in the second half #heartbreak).

I look forward to following your progress.

I'm going to reveal my sever lack of knowledge when it comes to endurance sports (again, just picked up distance running within the last 9 months), but I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say that you're curious about my HRmax.

Sorry about that. I just meant your maximum heart rate. I was trying to get at a percentage to understand what your values mean. No big deal. Just curious. I do a lot of HR-based training and I know the beats-per-minute numbers can mean different things for different people. For example, my maximum HR is around 200 beats-per-minute, so my usual easy runs are at around 145... about 72% of my maximum heart rate.

Yup, sharp and intense at times.

One of the big indicators for me that something has a neural component is that it doesn't act like normal injury. It doesn't stay in the same place, and whether it hurts more or less doesn't correlate well to activity and rest.

Here's a good read.

Cool, hope you stick around. Sounds like the talent is there and you'll probably progress more quickly than me, but in the meantime it'll be nice to have someone with similar times and goals. Agreed on the value of this thread; I almost certainly wouldn't have achieved my HM goal time last fall without what I learned.

Also...(and full disclosure - I have no medical training, just another idiot on the internet)…

I've learned in my own injury/health misadventures that...

1) Low levels of B12 can be associated with nerve pain.

2) People with inflammatory bowel disease can have difficultly absorbing enough B12 even if we eat meat daily - just because you eat it doesn't mean your body absorbs it when your digestive tract is screwy.

Just something else to raise in your next appointment. On the advice of my podiatrist (who is a serious runner) I've started supplementing B12. It's inexpensive and water soluble (which makes it less risky than fat soluble vitamins). [obviously you want to make sure it doesn't interact with any meds you may be on]

Coach Jeff ROC wrote:

Sorry about that. I just meant your maximum heart rate. I was trying to get at a percentage to understand what your values mean. No big deal. Just curious. I do a lot of HR-based training and I know the beats-per-minute numbers can mean different things for different people. For example, my maximum HR is around 200 beats-per-minute, so my usual easy runs are at around 145... about 72% of my maximum heart rate.

No worries. I have no idea what my HRmax is. I suppose there's a test I could run to figure it out, or at least get an idea of it?

Even eating a Vegan diet I dont even supplement orally w B12... every 3 months or so I used to go get a shot .. when pulling my blood every year my levels were way on the high side .. last year just got one shot all year long .. and in march my levels were still on the high side of good ..

Maybe something to look into DW as its easier and more cost effective then having to supplement daily.

DW - All good points. I started B12 supplements awhile back, and my December blood work was okay. I was really low on Vitamin D (probably from always running early morning), so I've been making more of an effort to supplement that as well.

How are the meds treating you, now that you've been on them for a bit?

The easiest is to either run an full effort 800 or to run an 800, rest a minute, and then rip a 400. Either of those should get you to 100%

Another foot and ankle ortho surgeon had me start a B vitamin regimen. It is B12: 1000mcg. B6: 100-150mg (do not exceed 200mg/day from all sources). Folic acid: 800mcg.

I felt a noticeable difference with some odd "pains" in my feet after months of taking them. I have continued for 5+ years now.

darkwave wrote:

Rhodium Nights wrote:

That was me who asked about the streaming yoga!! Sounds like a sweet deal!

Also, how are the pullups coming along? Did you look up the Armstrong Pullup Program?

I'm at 3-5 sets of 5-6 prone grip pull-ups (I can do 10 parallel grip ones, but that's not the goal - parallel grip are much easier than prone). I did look up the Armstrong program, but wasn't sure how that would blend with my running schedule, which I am loathe to relax.

I have plateaued recently, which I think is because I have shifted from three upper body days to two (I felt like I was starting to pack too much into the week). I may start adding in just a few sets of pull-ups on off days to keep the momentum going. Just like Coffee Dad suggested :)

I see. Honestly the best way to get better at pullups is to just do a bunch of comfortable sets throughout the day. For example, if 4-6 pullups is easy for you, just do a set of 4-6 pullups many, many times when you're home. Do you have a pullup bar in your house?

One technique I used to do was to write a slash mark on the back of my hand with a pen every time I did a set of 10 pullups. I wanted to do at least 100 per day, so 10 sets, but when you have the whole day, it's not so bad!

I had days where I easily did 160+ pullups, with no absurd working to failure or overdoing it, or straining too much. Just those sets of 10 whenever I had a moment!

The true way to do pullups is via hangboard.

jewbacca wrote:

How are the meds treating you, now that you've been on them for a bit?

I've been going on and off them as needed. They have a mild but noticeable performance effect on me - they make me just slightly sluggish - so I prefer to go on them when things are getting a bit rough, and then off when I'm feeling better. Doctor was OK with this approach.

Definitely nice to have a way to calm down stuff when I get inflamed. And I'm really grateful that biologics aren't in the picture currently, both because of the immunosuppressive concerns and because I'm already on a biologic for my allergic asthma....

Re: B12 - I actually find popping a pill from CVS easier than schlepping myself in to get a shot every few months. No objection to shots themselves, just to the transit time and parking to/from. But, if there's ever evidence I need more than a pill, I'll look into shots. Should be clear, I was never tested for a B12 deficiency - it was just one of those "it can't hurt things" suggested by the podiatrist.

Pull-up bars - yup - I have one of those that inserts into a door frame. I really have no excuse not to throw in a few every time I walk past... I can't leave the bar there full time, since the door needs to be closed at times.

Was able to get in with a sports medicine doc my buddy referred me to and he feels pretty strongly it is just a really bad calf strain/tear. Either way I am out of commission for at least a couple of weeks.

Does anyone have any recommendations for home exercise routines that can help maintain some semblance of shape? Thinking of things that really work core, arms, glutes etc. without putting strain on the calf? I’ve been perusing YouTube videos looking for candidates but thought this crew might have some ideas.

Presumably ill be able to hit up the elliptical in a week or too.