(Road Racing and) Time Trialing and Training Thread - Week Ending 6/14/20

Are you experiencing achilles tendon pain or gastrocnemius pain? I know the heel drops are good achilles treatment, but maybe you have a muscle strain? That might indicate rest. Not an expert, just a chronic achilles guy.

Rucker: I have the pt protocol for after my achilles surgery if youd like to see some of the exercises he recommends. I do know that single leg off a step can be more stressful at times, at least for me. At first I started with flat ground, up on both legs, but down single leg. That was 3x a day 3 sets of 20 each leg. Then it progressed to off a step. Worth a try to go back to flat ground eccentrics. Also, a good full rest day may do some good.

Another stretch the surgeon recommended was single leg, off a step, 3x3min put up to full body weight into the single leg. Obviously if its painful or you need to work up to the 3 minutes that is fine. I felt that actually did help flexibility, but I had to stick with it. Range of motion actually improved (at least PT said so) in the non operative leg too.

If you have tight achilles and have a rigid foam roller or lacrosse ball, you can start near the distal (closest to foot) insertion point of the achilles with one leg crossed over the other (putting as much weight as you can on the massage tool) and flex your foot forward and backwards ~5x moving up 1-2" and flexing again. That really helps loosen things up, again at least for me.

Wish there was an edit button. The 3x3min stretch is 3x a day 3 minutes each leg.

Also, another progression to calf raises was up mostly with one leg (surgery leg for me) and down on one or both. I still like to mix that in on both sides.

Rucker: I have the pt protocol for after my achilles surgery if youd like to see some of the exercises he recommends. I do know that single leg off a step can be more stressful at times, at least for me. At first I started with flat ground, up on both legs, but down single leg. That was 3x a day 3 sets of 20 each leg. Then it progressed to off a step. Worth a try to go back to flat ground eccentrics. Also, a good full rest day may do some good.

I'm doing those flat ground ones right now. If I'm in base-building phase, I have no excuse for not attending to these details.

hhw - the TT split's didn't look too bad. 4 up 1 down sounds good, personally I avoid planning down weeks and just let them happen

stat - nice 300s and pacing workouts

Lanc - great job with the LR again

slo-twitch - yeah I have been trying to stick to 'training forum' these days, they really should change the forums so that off-topic doesn't show up with general (HS, college, training). I'm not sure how those 10k/8k times stack up to slo of past but they are looking really quick to me

Rhodium Nights - some tough workouts in there

darkwave - The Harrisburg Mile is set up pretty well to be ran since it is in waves but since the organization that puts it on is the YMCA I'd say it is doubtful. (I don't think a large organization like that would allow a branch to take the risk)

jewbacca - not sure if that is good or bad news since there is still an unknown aspect, best of luck

OR - Are you doing any other sort of strength work to help rehab?

GranpaChook - looks like you are following Klaas Lok's book. I'm tempted to buy it just to read although I doubt I would change my training to it, nice 5k TT

M32, 5'10", 160 lbs

While we have both been working from home, I've been running my wife's runs with her and then going back out to do a run solo.

M: 10.2 total miles

4.19 @ 127 avg bpm with the wife

6.01 @ 150 avg bpm, 8:50/mile pace

T: 9.31 total miles

4.3 @ 124 avg bpm with the wife

5.01 @ 160 avg bpm, 8:18/mile pace

W: 4.31 miles running, 9.82 miles cycling

4.31 @ 156 avg bpm, 8:08/mile pace

9.82 miles on the bike with the wife, 110 avg bpm

T: 5.15 miles running, 15.33 miles cycling

5.15 @ 122 avg bpm with the wife

15.33 @ 15 avg mph, 122 avg bpm (I really need to buy cycling shoes to get a better work out in. I'm just using tennis shoes on the platform pedals)

F: 10.12 total miles

4.05 @ 125 avg bpm with the wife

6.07 @ 160 avg bpm, 7:56/mile pace

S: 11.1 total miles

All of them were at 130 avg bpm, running with the wife and a friend

S: 10.23 miles

Mile 1 - 7:33

Mile 2 - 5:52

Miles 3-8 - around 7:40/mile

Mile 9 - 6:41

Mile 10 - 7:50

Total Miles

60.42 running - I've very proud of this number. In April, I was doing 40-45/week. Since then, I've slowly increase the mileage, to now being over 60/week for the last three weeks. So, far there have been no injuries and my legs feel relatively good. A couple times over the last three weeks, the legs have just felt dead, but not very often.

25.15 Cycling

Goals

1) Get under 20 minutes in a 5k. I feel like I could do this right now, but I haven't ran a 5k race since last November and I haven't bothered to time trial one.

2) 1:30:00 half marathon in October at the Mo Cow Bell in St. Charles, MO. I was previously training for the Milwaukee half marathon, which would have been my first ever half. The last 13.1 mile training run I did for that race was around 1:34:00, back in March. I think I've continued to improve, significantly, since then.

RunnerSam wrote:

jewbacca - not sure if that is good or bad news since there is still an unknown aspect, best of luck

Objectively it's good news. I feel like the risk of never coming back is high when they start slicing and dicing. Short term it's obviously frustrating at not having a clear picture of the path forward. I'm optimistic about the PT, though. They run a running specialty clinic through the university. Hopefully they can fix me up.

Coach Jeff ROC wrote:

Where in Idaho?

Hey Coach, great to see you around! Heading to CDA.

Thanks all for the inputs. No achilles pain, that's actually why I started the heel drops years ago (a string of lower leg injuries led me to decide it was better to always do them rather than only reactionary to an injury). Pain is where the soleus meets the gastroc on the outer part of the calf.

I'm going to try the 3x3min stretch program and see what that does for me. I've never done much stretching, and I probably should!

Missed last week so I'm putting that in as well.

M 20 160 lbs. 6'2

Goal Races: Fall XC Season for running

Cycling Race: Tour de Bloom (mid August). Montinore was cancelled

Weed ending 6/7 (cycling down week)

M: 40 min 5.13 miles

T: Bike VO2 Max workout: Max efforts on increasing distance but decreasing recovery: 5x15 second, 3x30 second, 2x60 second, then 1 mile TT.

W: 60 min 7.82 miles

Th: Bike: 31.2 miles 116 min. 2 climbs.

F: 40 min 5.19 miles

S: OFF

Su: 40 min 5.05 miles

Totals: Run: 180 min. 23.19 miles

Bike: 3 hours even: 48.21 miles

Felt good last week overall, but part of that might be for down week in Cycling.

Week ending 6/14

M: 40 min 5.06 miles

T: Bike 55.82 miles, 185 min.

W: 70 min 9.21 miles

Th: 44 min, 5.63 miles. Had one stride so broke 10 mph for the first time since injury.

F: 40 min, 5.16 miles

S: So this one was weird. Origional plan was 30 miles, with 2 TT segments (mile 4-5.5 and 17-21). However I got a puncture at mile 10. I had a bailout option which reduced my ride time on the puncture to 6. Total distance was 14 miles rounding down, and time (with time after the puncture counting as 1/2 time due to speed and just keeping the bike in control) was 49 min. Not making this up later.

S: Bike 40 min approx. 9.7 miles. Followed by a 16 min, 2 mile shakeout run.

Totals: Run: 210 min. 27.06 miles

Bike: 280 min. 80.2 miles

Also felt good this week with no complaints.

Darkwave: Hope I'm not speaking out of turn here, but I've greatly increased the amount of pull-ups I can do at once by training them at home grease the groove style, sets of 5 throughout the day most days of the week. Leaves me feeling fresh for other stuff and can work them in whenever I have time.

ajhahn: Yeah, based on your mileage and Sunday run, sub-20 doesn't seem like an issue. I'm doing a 5k TT on 7/4 to see where I'm at. Looks like we have similar goals, looking forward to following your progress!

coffee dad wrote:ajhahn: Yeah, based on your mileage and Sunday run, sub-20 doesn't seem like an issue. I'm doing a 5k TT on 7/4 to see where I'm at. Looks like we have similar goals, looking forward to following your progress!

I, too, noticed that our goals seem pretty similar, and also look forward to seeing how you progress.

I'm not the most consistent person posting on these threads. To be honest, I had no idea what LR was until February - when I was training for what was supposed to be my first half. I started posting more often during that training, then we had a bit of a family emergency that took me out of both my training and being active on here.

Hopefully, I stick around a bit more now that the emergency has passed. LR may have it's fair share of interesting posters, but I've always found this thread to be encouraging and helpful. Which, has been a big help to me - as a new distance runner.

I used to be a sprinter in high school, nothing that great (52 second quarter), and now - over a decade later - I'm enjoying the challenge of distance running.

Another week that looked something like training.

M: yoga

T: 9 w hill sprints

W: 8 w 3x10x30/30sec fast/jog w 2min between sets. 6:5X avg. leg strength

Th: 11

F: 6 w leg & upper strength

S: off

S: 6 and leisurely hike

M/41/5'6/167 lbs

Next Race: Mile TT on July 4th

Monday:

AM - 5.3 with 10 x 30 secs all-out efforts.

PM - 3.4 easy

Tuesday:

AM - 6.6 with 5 x 4 mins @ 6:55 (moderate pace) with 4 mins recovery.

PM - 3 easy

Wednesday:

7.5 easy with 5 x 20sec strides at the end

Thursday:

AM - 2.6 with 800m TT. 2:34 for 800m. Tough!!

PM - 6 easy with last 2 miles at faster end of easy

Friday:

7.4 easy with last 3 miles at moderate

Saturday:

17 miles with 3800 ft of elevation gain.

Went with a few friends. Initial plan was to run 8 miles hilly. So, didn't have breakfast and didn't carry water or gel. Got talked into doing the whole loop with the said friends. Suffering started at mile 14, borrowed a gel and somehow finished the run. Good times overall in terms of the beauty of the course and the fun factor.

Sunday:

3.5 miles very easy/recovery

Weekly miles: 62+

Weekly hours: 9:30 +

M40. 6-6. 190.

M 5.5

T 5

W off

Th 7

F 6

S 10 + nap on beach

S off + killer nap on sofa

33.5 miles. All easy. Pretty good considering the work situation.

I'm a big fan of HR data so I'm curious about your HRmax. Our times and goals are in the same ballpark. When I'm fit, I'm sub 20 in a 5k and I really ought to be able to run a 1:30 HM (though the only time I managed to do that was during the first half of Boston... I did NOT repeat that in the second half #heartbreak).

I look forward to following your progress.

I write this note slowly limping home. Was doing a 3 x 2 mile workout and .85 miles into the 3rd rep started feeling some contractions in my left calf. Tried to shake it off (Stupid) then “pop”. Not sure what’s wrong yet... can’t walk normally. Hoping it’s a bad strain.

Rhodium Nights wrote:

That was me who asked about the streaming yoga!! Sounds like a sweet deal!

Also, how are the pullups coming along? Did you look up the Armstrong Pullup Program?

I'm at 3-5 sets of 5-6 prone grip pull-ups (I can do 10 parallel grip ones, but that's not the goal - parallel grip are much easier than prone). I did look up the Armstrong program, but wasn't sure how that would blend with my running schedule, which I am loathe to relax.

I have plateaued recently, which I think is because I have shifted from three upper body days to two (I felt like I was starting to pack too much into the week). I may start adding in just a few sets of pull-ups on off days to keep the momentum going. Just like Coffee Dad suggested :)

Jewbacca - could it be nerve pain? Just throwing out another option. I've been running through a right PTT issue for the last year or so - no MRI, but ultrasound showed that the tendon was perfectly healthy (though I have an accessory posterior tibial tendon, oddly enough, also healthy). Pain is burning, moves around, and does not change according to how much or how little I run, though milder than what . I'm starting to treat it like nerve pain (Graston at areas of potential nerve entrapment; some flossing) and it's improving.

Just a thought - I know you've been pretty exhaustive in your approach, so you may have already ruled this one out.

Rucker - I've been told that it's fairly common to get adhesions at that place where the gastric and soleus slide past each other - could that be what's happening here? ART is generally presented as the response to that, IME.

HHWQ - sorry about the calf - hope it clears soon.

DW - That's probably true. I've been looking at methods for self-release on Youtube and some have been helpful. It was feeling a fair bit better by the afternoon yesterday, but still opted not to run. Going to try for something easy today, hopefully.