Teammate ran way less mileage than everyone thought

Maybe 3-4s faster in the 1500 and 15-20s faster in the 5k?

Who knows really tho - maybe lower mileage was better for this guy and he would've gotten hurt with high mileage

Times check out, strong MD times, drop off in the longer distances (especially the 8k)

Another great example that just "more miles" is overrated.

My guess is, that he had a good feel what was good for his body and did what made sense for him.

He might have reached some faster PRs but he probably would have been injured a lot as well.

Frank Shorter here wrote:

Another great example that just "more miles" is overrated.

My guess is, that he had a good feel what was good for his body and did what made sense for him.

He might have reached some faster PRs but he probably would have been injured a lot as well.

This. He probably had it exactly right. When workouts start up, volume drops. Everyone else knows this. Good on your teammate for not bowing to silly training methodologies his teammates make up.

Frank Shorter here wrote:

Another great example that just "more miles" is overrated.

My guess is, that he had a good feel what was good for his body and did what made sense for him.

He might have reached some faster PRs but he probably would have been injured a lot as well.

Nah, this guy was way underdeveloped endurance-wise.

His 800 & 1500 are in line. IAAF tables put 1:51.50 equivalent to 3:49.43.

But the equivalent 5k is 14:04. Yikes. Of course not everyone is equivalent at all distances but that's a pretty steep drop off from 1500 to 5k. He left a lot of time on the table for distances above the mile.

Frank Shorter here wrote:

Another great example that just "more miles" is overrated.

My guess is, that he had a good feel what was good for his body and did what made sense for him.

He might have reached some faster PRs but he probably would have been injured a lot as well.

I was talking to him a bit more this morning on another run. Dude has been at 75-80 miles a week for the last year with no injuries and is planning on running outdoor. I knew he had been running a lot but no idea it was that much. We talked about all of the other stuff he used to do as well. Never took ice baths, never rolled out, slept 6 hours a night most nights because he was living in the frat house, raced at 160 lbs at 6 feet tall. I'm guessing if he did everything else right, he would have been just fine. He was never injured in college- like literally never missed a day or had to cross-train.

For what it's worth as well, most of us ran 80 miles or more in the summer. He ran like 65-75% of what the rest of us ran, and it was all of the easy miles he missed. Big weeks for him would have been a long run, two work out days, a tempo day and one relaxed run vs. a long run, two workout days, a tempo day, and 4-5 relaxed runs.

I had an older teammate in college who ran about 3:48-3:50 in the 1500 who was in the pharmacy school and could only be at practice a couple of days a week. He figured out in his first couple of years that completely following the training program beat up his body too much and he ran better while a little more rested. Doing this, he was able to stay injury free the last three years of his career and got faster each year. We had a couple of other guys who would purposely schedule a class the same time as practice the one or two days a week. Then, depending on how they felt, they would run or not run.

On the other hand, I ran every single mile I was told to and was injured most of my career. Looking back, I wish I had backed off some so I could have stayed healthy.

There were plenty of guys on my team that ran the complete program and ran great as well. No matter how good a coach is, their program doesn't work for everyone on the team. The ones (both coaches and athletes) who can adapt the program to for what their body needs tend to do the best.

I get the whole injury thing. I'm inclined to believe that he probably would have stayed decently healthy as he never got injured, never did anything for injury prevention, didn't sleep a ton, and seems like he was heavy at 160 lbs. He said on our run this morning he's at 150 lbs now.

A guy like that would have had a shot at sub-4 with more rest, miles, and weight work.

Mileage doesn't help some people. I ran 1:54 and 4:10 in high school on 30 MPW. Bumped to 60 in college and ran 1:54 and 4:07.

zxczxcv wrote:

A guy like that would have had a shot at sub-4 with more rest, miles, and weight work.

That's what I was thinking. I guess we'll see this next outdoor season and if he can keep running good weekly mileage until then. I did look at his Strava and he looks super fit from what I can tell.

Frank Shorter here wrote:

Another great example that just "more miles" is overrated.

My guess is, that he had a good feel what was good for his body and did what made sense for him.

He might have reached some faster PRs but he probably would have been injured a lot as well.

Sadly, most college programs have coaches and systems that don't allow for such individual variation from the rest of the team. Adding that to the fact that most college coaches only have 4 years to develop athletes means that often coaches pretty much "Throw the eggs at the wall" and the ones that don't break get to race.

Tinman said that training should be adapted to each individual. That is typically not done on high school or college teams. It would be darn near impossible if you have 30 guys and only one coach.

He’s not lazy. Like other people on this thread is saying, he’s more comfortable running lower miles and he’s clearly a middle distance runner and he can get away running fast decent times with lower miles because of fast twitch to slow twitch ratio. I had a buddy in college only ran 30 miles or less during outdoor track after an injury and ran a 4:05 1500. Not bad coming off from injury! But every runner need specific workouts to tailor their needs. Meaning, there is no “cure all” workouts to al runners. Some runners need higher mileage than others in order to keep up with their lung fitness, and some runners need more speed and tempo workouts and less long runs per week. Hope this helps! I’m an independent running coach, feel free to email me at coach.chasewiedel@gmail.com. I help any runner regardless of age and fitness. I even help military service members to pass their runs for pt.

That's nothing. I ran 4:10 for 1600 on 30 MPW.

Ran similar time for 1500, 8:16 3k, 14:24 for 5k and 24:10 for 8k cc in college. 30 mpw in high school and 60-70 mpw in college. Very few injuries until my 30s after Years of 90-100 mpw. What works for each person is different. Some can handle more distance than others. I could not handle sub 630 pace easy days with my teammates the day after a hard workout. Also depends on your friend's personality. More miles often bring higher expectations and more pressure and to many less enjoyment in running. Your friend may be doing exactly what works best for him. Most of us can't understand why everyone doesn't push themselves to be their absolute best but not everyone has the same mindset.

After talking to him on those last few runs, I don't think there was any clear plan or thought process behind not running those days. I don't think that he was thinking that it was because he needed more days off, or anything like what people are suggesting. I think that he just hated running in our college town so much that he would rather play video games and hang out with his frat than go out and run. Now that he's out in the real world, it seems like he has no issue running the mileage that he was supposed to in college. To my knowledge, he ran for a few years after college recreationally (45-ish miles a week with maybe a tempo a week) and is now seriously training again. I really think it boiled down to where we were at and his social life. That's why I called him lazy. He calls himself lazy when talking about college.

How long ago did you graduate college?

How successful is he today in his job, family, social life, etc?

I don't see the purpose of trying to train as an Olympic type athlete in college if you don't have the motivation to do so and want a more balanced college life.

chia wrote:

How long ago did you graduate college?

How successful is he today in his job, family, social life, etc?

I don't see the purpose of trying to train as an Olympic type athlete in college if you don't have the motivation to do so and want a more balanced college life.

In the last 5 years. He's married with kids and they are done having more. I'm not sure how his job is but I know they do well enough that they travel a good amount and own a house in the burbs. I don't think he drinks anymore and his wife is a health nut so I'm sure he's eating well. We were chatting last night over text and I got him to run a 400-time trial today. No speed work outside of normal running and strides. 49.2. No idea what he could run in an 800 right now but I'm guessing pretty fast. I think he was a 47 split guy in college.