start with 40 at 8:00-8:30. then build to 60 over a couple months - at the same pace.
start with 40 at 8:00-8:30. then build to 60 over a couple months - at the same pace.
If you ran a 1:21 half off 38 miles weekly, okay.
But if 9-9:30 is your training pace and you ran a 1:21 half, I'm impressed. Get your "easy" pace to 7 minutes, tempo faster, and you'll run a 1:09.
Ok, thanks everyone for the ideas. Yeah, before the 1:21 half, I just did easy runs between 8-9 min pace and then I started doing a weekly tempo 6 weeks before the half, maybe like 3-4 miles @ 6-6:10. Long run of 10-13 every week also.
37, 45, 26, 36, 39, 39, 40, 45, 32, 50, 50, 48, 32, 33 (half).
Anyway, I was thinking increasing to 60 mpw this summer would be good, but whenever I start to cross 50+ I start getting sleep problems and get irritable lol. So I don't know if I need to slow down to 9+ to get to 60 or just not build mileage and just run faster...
If you're having trouble sleeping and are irritable you are overtraining. When this occurs decrease volume and intensity. Once improved sleep and mood, first reintroduce volume. Consider the reintroduction of intensity more conservatively.
Alacrity wrote:
If you're having trouble sleeping and are irritable you are overtraining. When this occurs decrease volume and intensity. Once improved sleep and mood, first reintroduce volume. Consider the reintroduction of intensity more conservatively.
Thank you. Yes. For the past year I have been stuck in this cycle where I build up to 50ish, start to feel a bit overtrained, then back down to 30-35. I slowly build back up to 50 and eventually the same thing happens. I'm literally just running 8-9 minute pace. So now I'm wondering... when I'm building up, say, past 50, maybe 60, should I really slow down to 9+ to be able to do this.
I agree with the people who say run 60 mpw but how slow do I need to run to be able to get there lol
Oh yeah also blood work is all normal if that matters, I've gotten all that checked.
Don't chase mileage. Focus on the structure of your week and let mileage happen. Perhaps train by minutes daily rather than mileage.
M: 30-40:00
T: 40-50:00
W: workout early season could be strides, later hills, and later still race pace
Th: 30-40:00
F: 0-40:00
S: 1:00-2:00 could include steady state to tempo
Su: 30-40
Let mileage follow base you feeling good or bad. You may get more or less mileage in any given number of minutes, but if you feel like crap at least it isn't insult to injury forcing you to run extra minutes to get the miles in.
Our team had 5 guys sub 16 and 10 guys sub 17. None ran more than 40MPW. You don't need that many miles in HS for a decent 5k.
predictors wrote:
40 MPW at 7:30. No way your PR is 17:50.
Are you saying it should be faster or slower? My PB is 18:50 and I run 45 MPW at 9:00. I'm guessing you think it's faster, but it's also possible he's running too fast and is due to get injured.
do both!!! wrote:
start with 40 at 8:00-8:30. then build to 60 over a couple months - at the same pace.
Second this! Once you achieve 60 MPW, you might start to feel like 8 is really slow, because you are more fit. Then you can increase the pace a bit.
Based on that PR you should be running no slower than 7:10 ever.
Get to 60 a week on whatever pace feels right and allows you to recover. Once you get to 60, improve the pace, add workouts and maintain it.
Listen to your body. It will know
cheaterfly wrote:
Based on that PR you should be running no slower than 7:10 ever.
This is why so many of you are perpetually injured. You run too fast for your daily running. I was injured for years, because I had to finish every run feeling like I'd trained.
I'm looking for 1:18 in the half this summer/fall after running a 1:21 this spring on a course with 350ft of gain off of base mileage. My training this year: averaging 49 MPW, the vast majority of that being 8-8:30/mi. Building to 70ish maw now, keeping everything easy. Prior to the half I had done only 1 workout this year, which was a 5mi progression in 31min, 6 weeks prior. No strides, no hill sprints, just frequent jogging. Adding in hill sprints now, and most of my mileage is pretty hilly (100ft of climbing per mile).
I don't have some wild background either. I ran 17:50 at 15yrs old off of the standard 25-30mpw with hard workouts in high school, got injured a lot and raced triathlon for a few years (pretty competitively through college), took a year off of endurance training and got back into it last summer with easy jogging. And I'm built like a wrestler, not a runner. 5'8/160#. 22 years old.
Nobody who is racing 5:45 pace is training at 9 minute pace. Trying slower than 8 minute pace is counterproductive for a 17:50 guy. It would be better to walk an hour than running 3:15 per mile slower than race pace. Imagine a 28 minute 5k runner doing the same. They would be running 12 minute miles.
aa aa aa dd wrote:
Ok, thanks everyone for the ideas. Yeah, before the 1:21 half, I just did easy runs between 8-9 min pace and then I started doing a weekly tempo 6 weeks before the half, maybe like 3-4 miles @ 6-6:10. Long run of 10-13 every week also.
37, 45, 26, 36, 39, 39, 40, 45, 32, 50, 50, 48, 32, 33 (half).
Anyway, I was thinking increasing to 60 mpw this summer would be good, but whenever I start to cross 50+ I start getting sleep problems and get irritable lol. So I don't know if I need to slow down to 9+ to get to 60 or just not build mileage and just run faster...
I'm quite impressed that you pulled off a 1:21 with that training.
predictors wrote:
Nobody who is racing 5:45 pace is training at 9 minute pace. Trying slower than 8 minute pace is counterproductive for a 17:50 guy. It would be better to walk an hour than running 3:15 per mile slower than race pace. Imagine a 28 minute 5k runner doing the same. They would be running 12 minute miles.
You said no one who runs 17:50 runs 7:30 pace for their easy runs [I presumably thought because you thought that pace was too fast]. Jack Daniel's, probably the most famous distance running coach in the US, says a person who races 17:50, should run their easy runs in 7:25 - 8:11/mile. So 7:30 is reasonable as an easy pace and on the fast side. Remember a 17:50 guy is probably only able to hold 6:30 pace for 10-15 miles in a race. So 1 min faster than what you'd be able to run these distances in a race is actually quite quick. No one is mainly doing 5km easy runs. Most serious people are running 11-15km easy runs. I agree that 9min/mile is too slow. 7:30 - 8 min/mile is probably ideal.
predictors wrote:
Nobody who is racing 5:45 pace is training at 9 minute pace. Trying slower than 8 minute pace is counterproductive for a 17:50 guy. It would be better to walk an hour than running 3:15 per mile slower than race pace. Imagine a 28 minute 5k runner doing the same. They would be running 12 minute miles.
I train with a 16:30 guy who is 37 years old. Long runs of 2 hours at 8:25 pace all the time. Doesnt seem to hurt him any.
aa aa aa dd wrote:
each with maybe 1 tempo a week. any help????
If you’re running on trails or in a very hilly area, don’t worry if your watch is telling you you’re running 9:00 pace. I broke 17 in HS off 35-40 mpw at 8-830 pace, really hilly town. If you’re not an aerobic machine, hills add a good chunk of time unless you’re flying down the hills
A lot of false BS here in this thread. One of my friends was one of the top masters runners in the country and ran 4:20 and sub 15 in his late 40s. His easy runs are frequently well over 9 minutes per mile and very often over 10 and always have been since he first began running. Even over 50 he can still run sub 16 but doesn't have the desire to train with so much volume anymore and is happy being in mid 16 shape. Why should a guy that is 4+ minutes behind pro runners in a 5K be running only 30 seconds to 1 minute slower than them on "easy" days?
This is some troll level questioning. You don’t need to do that much to run 17 mins. Maybe try getting way more quality work at 30-40 miles a week first before attempting to go up to 60 and just walking your runs.