Can tall runner qualify for Boston?

What got me thinking about body types and competitive advantages is a friend of mine (a running buddy). He ran cross country in college and crushes it a marathon distance (top ten in popular race nearby). He looks like a greyhound. He is extremely thin, lean and light boned. He is 6 inches shorter than me and weighs 70 lbs less. I am not a college athlete. For fun, we took our kids to the track and we all raced each other at different distances. He was about a minute faster than me at the mile. He also crushed me at the 800m. Then, I won at the 400m, 200m and 100m. Afterward he asked how I got so fast--he'd never seen that speed from me as we usually jog and chat together.

Being taller and thicker with muscles, my body type has a competitive advantage at short bursts of power and speed. I haven't been training for sprinting--it has nothing to do with training. It's raw natural ability.

If you look at the Olympic Track and Field team you can almost guess who does what event by their size. The sprinters are taller and thicker. The marathon guys are shorter and lean.

I would not be picked for team marathon by any reasonable person. Does that mean I don't have a chance to improve? No, it means I certainly don't have an advantage, and likely have a competitive disadvantage. However, after all the above comments I believe if I put in the hours of training I stay healthy I can improve my marathon time.

Hardloper wrote:

Now you're just being stupid. The average skin color of a marathoner got a lot darker in the last 30 years. That doesn't mean dark skin makes you run faster.

Skin color has nothing to do with it. It is body type. My point stands. Look at Denmark. They have one of the tallest average heights in world. They only had one man qualify for the 2016 olympic team in marathon. His name is Abdi Hakin Ulad and he was born in Somolia. He came to Denmark as a refugee. In the case of Denmark, the average height of olympic marathoner is below average.

You might be overthinking this. I am 6' 6". Not much in the way of raw speed or talent. Former smoker. Not a college athlete. I've qualified for Boston several times and even ran it once. Consistent, day in/day out, training will likely get you there. It did for me. Good luck to you in your quest!

try-ath-uh-leet wrote:

You might be overthinking this. I am 6' 6". Not much in the way of raw speed or talent. Former smoker. Not a college athlete. I've qualified for Boston several times and even ran it once. Consistent, day in/day out, training will likely get you there. It did for me. Good luck to you in your quest!

Thank you for the encouragement. That means a lot! Your story inspires me.

mortyd wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Now you're just being stupid. The average skin color of a marathoner got a lot darker in the last 30 years. That doesn't mean dark skin makes you run faster.

Skin color has nothing to do with it. It is body type.

Why is the average height for an Olympic Trials marathoner the same (or one inch taller) than the height of the average American?

too late for this wrote:

mortyd wrote:

Skin color has nothing to do with it. It is body type.

Why is the average height for an Olympic Trials marathoner the same (or one inch taller) than the height of the average American?

His response to that was ridiculous - that the distribution of heights is biased away from the tall or super tall even though the average was the same or higher. Which was provided with no evidence and doesn't make any sense. I pointed out that 6-4 Puskedra (2:10:24, without cheaterflys) had one of the fastest PRs in the entire field. That's just knowing offhand, and not searching to see how many more tall guys ran the OTM.

Note that 6-3.57 would place someone in the 99 percentile in the US, so you wouldn't expect to see more than a handful of 6-4 guys in the OTM assuming similar distribution of heights as the general American population.

In this entire thread, there hasn't been a shred of evidence that the distribution of heights of fast runners are any different than the distribution of heights of the general population within their own countries.

The OP pointing to the height trend of the top 100 marathoners in the world is seeing effects of more Africans (5-6 or 5-7 average height in most east African countries) in the top 100 now than before, when Europeans had a stronger presence. As the OP is someone who is on the recreational runner side of the OTM guys, skipping over the OTM guys to look at the top 100, as if the top 100 is a closer comparison to his situation, is an odd justification for not trying.

There is an easily measured bias in body shape of fast marathoners compared to the general public. They are smaller/lighter for their height than the general public.

outside running wrote:

too late for this wrote:

Why is the average height for an Olympic Trials marathoner the same (or one inch taller) than the height of the average American?

His response to that was ridiculous - that the distribution of heights is biased away from the tall or super tall even though the average was the same or higher.

It's not as ridiculous as you think if you look at the top finishers. The top five finishers in the 2020 OTM race were very tightly grouped around the average height:

1. Galen Rupp — 2:09:20 5'11"

2. Jacob Riley — 2:10:02 5'11"

3. Abdi Abdirahman — 2:10:03 5'10"

4. Leonard Korir — 2:10:06 5'7"

5. Augustus Maiyo — 2:10:47 5'8"

After that it is hard to find the heights of the finishers because they aren't as famous. I would love to look at the data if anyone has it. What was the standard deviation of height among the top finishers? Did it vary less than the standard deviation of height among the general population? Was there statistical significance in the finish times and height? I will readily admit that I don't have data to perform a proper statistical analysis. However, I don't think one should be shamed as "ridiculous" or "stupid" for proposing a theory, asking a question, or proposing a possible explanation. It is a fascinating subject and deserves further investigation. I suspect there were less "extremely short" and less "extremely tall" people among the top finishers than in the general population (again I don't have data, just a theory). If someone out there wants to research it that would be amazing!

Another interesting question is why don't many of countries with taller average heights in their population have successful Olympic marathoners? I'm talking about The Netherlands, Denmark, etc. That would be another fascinating study to perform. A study of those populations would show results a little easier if height does make a difference. I've only found three runners with height listed from the 2016 Olympics from those countries and two were refugees from Somalia and the third was an inch shorter than the average height of his population. Not enough data to make a conclusion, but an interesting idea if somebody is looking for a research project.

Bekele is like 5'3" and has run 2-flat for the 'thon. Proportionally, you only have to run, say, about 21.7 miles give or take. You should be able to do it.

mortyd wrote:

It's not as ridiculous as you think if you look at the top finishers. The top five finishers in the 2020 OTM race were very tightly grouped around the average height:

That's about what you'd find on average picking 5 random men from the USA, fairly "tightly grouped around average height".

I don't understand your obsession with the very top, beyond the top Americans when you are looking for examples that someone like you can run a BQ.

This taller than average for Sweden Swedish guy once ran 11 sub-2:20s in a single year, and averaged 2:16 for 14 marathons in a single year:

I don't think you're right. It's probably either 1) he let you win to feel better or 2) higher percentage of fast twitch muscles. I'm skinny AF but can still move fast in 400 and shorter.

upthewall wrote:

I don't think you're right. It's probably either 1) he let you win to feel better or 2) higher percentage of fast twitch muscles. I'm skinny AF but can still move fast in 400 and shorter.

Ha ha! I like the idea of him letting me win. He is a nice guy. I’ll have to ask him about that. I’m afraid to ask because the pitchforks might come out, but what are odds of someone training to BQ if they have more fast twitch muscles? Let me guess, it’s possible if you train well and stay healthy.

mortyd wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

You are never going to BQ anyway with your attitude. You will probably increase your training slightly, get injured, blame your height and then quit and declare you were right all along.

My "attitude" is dogged persistence and a thirst for knowledge--great attributes for a runner to have. I'm grateful for the big/tall posters who have encouraged me and said I can BQ. I believe them. What I don't believe are the people saying I don't have significant challenges to overcome. I likely will be injured in training (higher force loads on joints with heavier weight). I will have to pick my races in cooler climates to control for heat challenges. It's going to be hard and it may take many years, but I'm going to do it.

How many miles did you run this week?

outside running wrote:

This taller than average for Sweden Swedish guy once ran 11 sub-2:20s in a single year, and averaged 2:16 for 14 marathons in a single year:

l

Amazing! Thanks for posting that.

outside running wrote:

I don't understand your obsession with the very top, beyond the top Americans when you are looking for examples that someone like you can run a BQ.

It doesn’t apply to me at all. Just trying to get at fundamental truths about running efficiency and competitive advantages/disadvantages.

outside running wrote:

His response to that was ridiculous

Yes, he clearly struggles with statistics. But let's pretend for the sake of argument height does affect running - what percent would it matter? Tesfaye Abera (6'4") ran only 1% slower than the world record. It is negligible compared to the problems he can fix like his lack of training.

Hardloper wrote:

outside running wrote:

His response to that was ridiculous

Yes, he clearly struggles with statistics..

That’s an ad hominem attacks. Let’s keep it classy. ?

mortyd wrote:

outside running wrote:

This taller than average for Sweden Swedish guy once ran 11 sub-2:20s in a single year, and averaged 2:16 for 14 marathons in a single year:

l

Amazing! Thanks for posting that.

Another two time Swedish Olympic marathoner, who was in fact teammates with Ståhl in both the 1980 and 1984 Olympic marathons, was even taller than Ståhl at 1.92 (6-3.6) was Tommy Persson (2:11:02 PR).

*screwed up that sentence :)

So do you run, like, marathons? wrote:

How many miles did you run this week?

I’ve run 4 miles everyday this week so far. With a long run tomorrow I’ll be slightly more miles than previous weeks training. I’m trying to safely increase miles over time. Build 3 weeks, drop miles fourth. I’ve slowed my pace down as someone pointed out I was reaching with paces. Trying to train at current fitness level, and build up the miles.