Brown University, with a $4.2 billion endowment, cancels men's track and field and men's cross country

NERunner053 wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Ok, I'm surprised. Still big mad

Quick google search had her making $675k in 2014. So 20% off of that or off of whatever her salary grew to in the last 6 years.

I don't feel bad.

My original point is the same. Low wage workers & low cost sports are getting the shaft at universities rn. A lot of people have been doing very well for a very long time.

There's no reason there can't be track & XC.

She makes $1.3M

I guarantee your football team brings in revenue. If they sell one bag of popcorn they bring in revenue. Now their expenses may outweigh their revenue and they operate at a loss. I hate the term non tevenue sports. There are none at the college level. Sell 1 t’shirt you made revenue. It is NON PROFIT SPORTS

jersey Shore's Finest wrote:

What sports are revenue sports at Brown? What about 90 percent of colleges? That's the problem. This isn't about money as a whole. It's about football and it's lack of female counterpart.

Ya its absurd. Football rosters are huge too. They have like 6 players per position, only one of who gets field time, maybe 2 if a guy gets tired or hurt or the team is way up. Over 100 spots with no female equivalent - cheerleading isn't an ncaa sport so you have to make up the spots by having every womens team be way bigger than men's teams or cutting men's teams. Yet for any given sport more men want to participate than women. With no title 9, men's xc teams would be 3 to 4 times the size of women with no cuts. Men are just that much more competitive. Its really a tragedy that so many men have to forgo sports because some rednecks want to watch fat people run into each other.

alummm wrote:

Well, good job Brown. You continue to devalue the institution.

Yes, as a BTFXC alum, I'm emotionally tied to this decision. But, cutting these teams, especially ones tied with tradition and history like XC and track, will hurt the cache of this school. And that stuff is important in the Ivy League.

Your really went to Brown and don’t know the difference between cache and cachet?

2 elephants in the room

1)The power 5 football programs. They are minor league football provided for free to the NFL. Zero reason this should be an NCAA sport. They are already talking about paying players. How does this impact Brown? Because the power 5 football conference dictate policy at the NCAA and control the board room there, which impacts Title XI and perception of AD around the country. Until the power 5 conference school create their own division to control TV reviews, the NCAA will push for football and not XC/Track.

2) There are 347 D1 programs in NCAA. 30 make nationals as a team, and maybe 50-100 routinely compete for team or individual slots. If you aren't competing to qualify for the NCAA championships, why should be a varsity NCAA sport? Why not be a club sport? Couldn't Brown Track Club be a running club for people aged 18-80? Students, professors, staff, etc? They talk about health/well being, why not just let them compete at so many of BU mini-meets indoor, or Franklin Park XC meets? Club sports could grow tremendously without NCAA oversight.

3) Who is more successful right now, Ultimate Frisbee or Cross Country. Frisbee doesn't use the NCAA and does it need to? Do most XC programs really need to be Varsity sports? Lots of cuts to Soccer right now for some similar reasons. Youth and club teams dominate the picture in this sport, why play for your college or high school team? Will XC go that way too? I think COVID will push that more as HS close and prevent sports. Just look at track time trials, NXN, footlocker etc.

Those are the real questions this sport needs to ask itself.

Ummmm wrote:

alummm wrote:

Well, good job Brown. You continue to devalue the institution.

Yes, as a BTFXC alum, I'm emotionally tied to this decision. But, cutting these teams, especially ones tied with tradition and history like XC and track, will hurt the cache of this school. And that stuff is important in the Ivy League.

Your really went to Brown and don’t know the difference between cache and cachet?

Ever read posts by those Johnson boys with their fancy dancy Ivy degrees?

Ummmm wrote:

alummm wrote:

Well, good job Brown. You continue to devalue the institution.

Yes, as a BTFXC alum, I'm emotionally tied to this decision. But, cutting these teams, especially ones tied with tradition and history like XC and track, will hurt the cache of this school. And that stuff is important in the Ivy League.

Your really went to Brown and don’t know the difference between cache and cachet?

FYI the poster corrected that almost immediately, without input from others.

It was just a typo.

rojo wrote:

wejo wrote:

Male athletes should mandate for title ix purposes you don’t count the same athlete three times.

I agree. Counting them three times is absurd. XC/Indoor/Outdoor should count as one sport for title IX purposes. There is a fall and spring golf season. Theydon't count the golfers twice, same thing for soccer, football, etc.

Maybe distance runners shouldn't get to have three shots at an NCAA championship competition every single year.

I was surprised to see Brown had 38 varsity sports. That is a lot! They will still have 29 varsity sports probably more than 95% of the D1 schools.

I think Brown is trying to return to the Olympic ideal of amateur sport, starting with the sports that started it all in ancient Greece, namely football and sailing.*

*sarcasm alert

Seriously, this is messed up! Hope what the poster said about Cornell and Columbia does not come to pass.

Harambe wrote:

RunALittleFaster wrote:

She took a 20% pay cut.

Ok, I'm surprised. Still big mad

Which brings it all the way down to ..... ?

One of these sports is not like the others wrote:

So Brown is now going to cut one of their few relatively diverse sports teams (

https://brownbears.com/sports/mens-track-and-field/roster

) and replace it with the most patrician sport of all, sailing? Did they not learn anything from the Varsity Blues scandal and the Harvard admissions lawsuit? Or maybe they did learn their lesson, and realize a sailing team is a great way to solicit ultra-rich families and their donations.

And to add insult to injury, they think that track and field are considered two separate sports. It's indoor track & field and outdoor track & field, morans.

Of course they didn't learn anything. THAT'S THE MAGIC OF THE WEALTHY. They never have to learn anything they don't want to learn.

LRCisTerrible wrote:

Maybe this is an early hiss of air coming from the massive balloon that is university education in the US. Universities have become fat cats in American society and arguably take more than they provide.

Most college sports should be on some level between intramural and club level. The Ivy League focuses on mind and body? Great, have at it on a club or intramural team kiddos. Time to trim the fat.

While they're at it, it's far past time to cut administrative budgets, quality of life perks for college kids, and make college a far more utilitarian and egalitarian venture for the betterment of our society.

+2 Rip down the current system and burn its ashes into the mf ground.

Typo...like you have in your post.

All these posts are ignoring the obvious solution to Title IX ails: women's football. Preferably played in muddy fields. Yabba dabba doo!

I think people may be missing part of the money argument.

Let's say you have 12-15 track recruits per year and most of them are on huge scholarships. Remember Brown costs like 70k a year so let's say 15 of them get $750k between them. If you replace them with sailors paying full boat you are talking about major money right there.

And let's be honest, the real money comes from 1-2 donors. Most sailors are rich. You get a couple of sailing recruits from super-wealthy families and you could be reaping in millions.

whitey loses wrote:

It is hard to field a competitive team of sprints, jumps. And throws without really dropping admissions standards. They didn't like that. Sailing is all white so no problem finding smart kids.

The reason sailing is moving up to college level is rich parents. Wouldn't be surprised if a rich parent is funding the sailing.

There are no athletic scholarships in the Ivy League.