Is Division 3 worth it?

It is all about fit and what you are looking for. I'd suggest you ask other questions of yourself and not be too worried about D3 or D1. There are D3 XC teams that would place well in Power 5 Conferences and there are D1 XC teams that would not qualify for many High School state meets.

Ask yourself:

What type of school you are looking for?

High Academic (if your a C student MIT and Yale won't be a good fit / If your a valedictorian Not Great U will underwhelm you in the class room)

School size preference?

Is close to home important?

Do you have setting preferences (City country, training locations)?

What are your finances? (would you qualify for financial aid at D3? Could make it less than a 50% scholarship at a major State School)

Also consider would be a point getter for that team or are your fighting for a line up spot.

I personally like D3 because academics tend to get more focus over athletics.

Hope this helps.

None of the information you've provided is incongruent with my observations. The D1 competition in your races came from directional schools, minor private schools, and alphabet state universities or you would have stayed exactly what programs' athletes you raced against. I'm sure SE Missouri State's and DePaul's runners felt your hot breath down their necks in that 4 x 1600m.

Bottom line is that if you run d3 it is VERY LIKELY that you will be in the mix for d3 National championships as long as you get better and stay healthy. In DI, you might be competing at the regional or just conference level.

I will help you with some data. There are only 12 men's XC teams in the Big 10. The 10th XC team from the conference meet posted these times indoor this year.

800 1:49, 1:49, 1:49

M 4:05, 4:07, 4:07

3k 7:58, 8:06, 8:14

5k 13:58, 14:17, 14:21

The top time in D3 this year in each event.

800 1:51

M 4:08

3k 8:11

5k 14:22

Absorb those numbers. That means that the best guy in all of D3, had they gone to the 10th best distance distance school in the B10. they wouldn't have made the travel squad for the conference meet. This isn't the best B10 school or an average D3 guy, it is the number 1 D3 guys and only the 10th best school for distance in the B10. This is why I recommend D3 for most guys because most 4:20 guys or 9:25 guys who go D1 and end up sitting home for 3 years, end up quitting.

wwharrier wrote:

I think plenty of quality athletes have come from D3. Matt Groose ran 1:47/3:41. UW-Oshkosh Ryan Kleimenhagen ran sub 4 and 1:48. UW-Oshkosh. Last year Kyler Lueck-UW-Eau Claire ran 1:49 indoors and 3:44. Zach Lee-UW-Platt ran 3:44. Andrew Rock was a olympic gold medalist and silver medalist in the 400m 44.35. Wadeline Jonathas, Christy Cazzola, Emily Richards on the womens side to name a few. Last year Patel ran 13:51/28:40. Pretty sure 100 D1 guys beat him. Stop knocking.

Isaac Garcia-Cassani competed with D1 guys a lot too. I think he ran 4:15 in high school. He was consistently up front and competing in races with guys who had much faster PR's than him in high school. Almost beat Robby Andrews too.

predictors wrote:

I will help you with some data. There are only 12 men's XC teams in the Big 10. The 10th XC team from the conference meet posted these times indoor this year.

800 1:49, 1:49, 1:49

M 4:05, 4:07, 4:07

3k 7:58, 8:06, 8:14

5k 13:58, 14:17, 14:21

The top time in D3 this year in each event.

800 1:51

M 4:08

3k 8:11

5k 14:22

Absorb those numbers. That means that the best guy in all of D3, had they gone to the 10th best distance distance school in the B10. they wouldn't have made the travel squad for the conference meet. This isn't the best B10 school or an average D3 guy, it is the number 1 D3 guys and only the 10th best school for distance in the B10. This is why I recommend D3 for most guys because most 4:20 guys or 9:25 guys who go D1 and end up sitting home for 3 years, end up quitting.

You make an excellent point. If I were 1-2' slower in xc in high school and 45"+ slower in the 2 mile/20"+ slower in the mile, then the program I wound up in (and many more just like it) possibly wouldn't have been a meaningfully enjoyable experience. I could have been toiling just to hope to break into the top 7 for xc or the top 3 in any track event, banging my head on the wall Rudy style year after year. I've seen that happen to several guys I knew, some were even on scholarship. I'd probably choose taking up a musical instrument over that. Or put my sights on a program more at a level to meet my ability. After all, almost none of us went pro in the sport so we damn well better be finding fun and enjoyment in it most of the time. It's the travel with friends, getting a taste of the podium hunt from time to time, the feeling of confidence that's the true reward.

anonymous4now wrote:

High Academic (if your a C student MIT and Yale won't be a good fit / If your a valedictorian Not Great U will underwhelm you in the class room)

I personally like D3 because academics tend to get more focus over athletics.

LMFAO

Ex-D1 P5 wrote:

None of the information you've provided is incongruent with my observations. The D1 competition in your races came from directional schools, minor private schools, and alphabet state universities or you would have stayed exactly what programs' athletes you raced against. I'm sure SE Missouri State's and DePaul's runners felt your hot breath down their necks in that 4 x 1600m.

The AA I beat (outkicked for first actually) ran for Stanford, not exactly a directional school. He had run sub-29 earlier that season, although we were racing a shorter distance. I actually found our race results and I would gladly enter a legal contract, putting our funds in escrow and all until proof of performance is satisfied, for a large sum of money if you wanted to bet on what you may think is my bluff. Most of the D1 comp I raced against was from the lesser schools but you’re just being ignorant.

I can tell this means a lot to you. I'm sure I care far less. If you're fishing for an attaboy, I'll give it to you. The wider relevance is certainly debatable.

Ex-D1 P5 wrote:

I can tell this means a lot to you. I'm sure I care far less. If you're fishing for an attaboy, I'll give it to you. The wider relevance is certainly debatable.

My only aim is to discredit the false information you’re spreading on here. I haven’t run seriously in many years and I just come here to follow the sport and ideally help people make informed decisions. The drivel you’ve been writing is counterproductive to that.

Then I won't dissuade you or anyone else from the illusion that one D3 guy allegedly beating one D1 AA exactly once is indicative of anything else beyond just that. I won't say something about the exception proving the rule, nope. Now let's all repeat that KG bit of wisdom:

https://giphy.com/gifs/kevin-garnett-7ZbqmwNhus77i

Letsrun people will always look for anecdotal evidence.But I actually want to hel high school runners make an educated decision. Here is the real data again from this year.

There are only 12 men's XC teams in the Big 10. The 10th XC team from the conference meet posted these times indoor this year.

800 1:49, 1:49, 1:49

M 4:05, 4:07, 4:07

3k 7:58, 8:06, 8:14

5k 13:58, 14:17, 14:21

The top time in D3 this year in each event.

800 1:51

M 4:08

3k 8:11

5k 14:22

Absorb those numbers. That means that the best guy in all of D3, was worse than the 3rd best guy on one of the worst teams in the B10. The best guy in all of D3 would therefore not have made the travel squad for the conference meet on this team which is the 10th best distance squad in the conference. High school runners really need to click through TFRRS for each team that they are interested in.

predictors wrote:

Letsrun people will always look for anecdotal evidence.But I actually want to hel high school runners make an educated decision. Here is the real data again from this year.

There are only 12 men's XC teams in the Big 10. The 10th XC team from the conference meet posted these times indoor this year.

800 1:49, 1:49, 1:49

M 4:05, 4:07, 4:07

3k 7:58, 8:06, 8:14

5k 13:58, 14:17, 14:21

The top time in D3 this year in each event.

800 1:51

M 4:08

3k 8:11

5k 14:22

Absorb those numbers. That means that the best guy in all of D3, was worse than the 3rd best guy on one of the worst teams in the B10. The best guy in all of D3 would therefore not have made the travel squad for the conference meet on this team which is the 10th best distance squad in the conference. High school runners really need to click through TFRRS for each team that they are interested in.

Yet half of those D1 times were run on oversized tracks and most of the top D3 marks were run on flat 200 meter track. Converting both to a 200 meter banked track would paint a more accurate picture.

Stop being an ass trying to build a divide between D1 and D3. I ran D3, I was friends with multiple sub 4/low 4 guys and we all respected each other because we all loved the sport and worked hard.

Wow! I merely presented facts with no opinions attached. You resort to cursing and name calling based on the presentation of facts. And you brought the point back to where we started which is that D3 runners don't compete against the best D1 runners. Funny how you now turned that into the excuse of why D1 runners are faster. Yes, you are correct. D1 runners run on better tracks than D3 runners against much better competition than D3 runners which helps them run even faster. So I will give the number 1 runner a boost to being close to the 2nd runner in each event on the bad distance squad that I listed But the actual facts remain that the top D3 guys were behind about 100 D1 guys this year and wouldn't have made the squad of most Power 5 teams.

We're not going to cure anyone's insecurity or inferiority complex. I'm far removed from college, at this point runners are runners to me. I am as happy for my coworker finishing her first half-marathon as I am for Shalane or Meb winning a WMM race, probably moreso because I know her personally and it's cool to see someone take pride in an accomplishment.

There are basic facts about how talent becomes sorted (hint: it is closely correlated with funding) among the college hierarchy. I mean, look at how many D3 players get drafted into the NFL or MLB. It's simply a rule with few exceptions. You just gotta know yourself (not easy at age 17 or 18), know your place, and figure out what's going to serve your own best interests. You being a fulfilled person in the situation you find yourself in is the ultimate W, what happens by the time you hit the finish line on the track and the numbers on the clock are simply an external outcome of a process.