Does Leo Daschbach's record deserves a tiny asterisk since the start of the race took place in lanes, not a waterfall?

LetsGetIt wrote:

wet blanket wrote:

Hey Rojo,

You must be a lot of fun at a party.

Your post serves no purpose.

Agreed who the hell cares he’s always trying raise some controversy or discuss some technicality

I definitely hear that argument, and I totally agreed at first, but hear me out...

You want to be able to compare races that happened in different times or places, right? Otherwise, why the obsession with times? When race times are decided down to the 100th of a second, and you are going to accept every decimal point as gospel, doesn't it make sense to ensure that two different races were performed in the same way? Like, what's the point in comparing times if races are run completely differently. The only true way to compare efforts on time is to ensure the situations were as identical as possible.

the race isn't even official so who cares if they're following official rules.

Imagine being pretentious enough to write an essay on why someone's dunk might not count because he dunked on a playground hoop that wasn't certified to NBA standards.

It was official. What is wrong with all of you? People keep telling me that Letsrun is a cesspool but I stuck up for the community. This is one of the greatest American races of all time. It is one of the fastest high school times ever but it was spearheaded by the kids which makes it so amazing. I can't believe that this website and the community is not giving it more positive attention. It should rise to the level of Sports Illustrated cover and headline story on ESPN. There are no other sports taking place. I am really frustrated with the founders of Letsrun and the community as a whole.

Congratulations to all of the kids. I think it was a PR for all of them.

alternate perspective wrote:

LetsGetIt wrote:

Agreed who the hell cares he’s always trying raise some controversy or discuss some technicality

I definitely hear that argument, and I totally agreed at first, but hear me out...

You want to be able to compare races that happened in different times or places, right? Otherwise, why the obsession with times? When race times are decided down to the 100th of a second, and you are going to accept every decimal point as gospel, doesn't it make sense to ensure that two different races were performed in the same way? Like, what's the point in comparing times if races are run completely differently. The only true way to compare efforts on time is to ensure the situations were as identical as possible.

Valid point. To which end is that possible though?

To take your point and apply to other factors within each of the 11 sub4s, are they all "as identical as possible"?

For instance, was the race that produced the HS record of 3:53 (Webb) and paced and won by Hicham ElGuerrouj at the Prefontaine Classic a similar situation from which to "compare efforts on time" as Ryun's 3:55 on dirt with no pacers and, by the way, started with staggers?

Are only races such as Per or NB Nationals valid while all State Championship meets which run 20+ athletes starting in multiple waterfalls invalid??

Sarah Williamson wrote:

duh wejo wrote:

He took a break from the racism, and read about it.

lol!

Now we'll wait for Rojo to state the case of the cop in MN that killed that black man is very complex.

duh wejo wrote:

Sarah Williamson wrote:

lol!

Now we'll wait for Rojo to state the case of the cop in MN that killed that black man is very complex.

hahahahahhahaha

What "record" does Daschback hold? He certainly doesn't hold the national high school mile record. That would be Webb's 3:53 from 2001. His time was run in a time trial, not an official race so it doesn't even count as an official mark. Even Webb's record is unofficial since official national high school records are not kept.

NFHS and T&F News maintain HS records. They are official. Can't you guys just come here and be happy and congratulate these kids.

Rojo Killjoy wrote:

Were the start line and finish line a mile apart? ?

No, they are only a few meters apart...

coach of coach wrote:

You are incorrect. The start is legal.

Color me embarrassed, the rule is implied in USATF and W.A. rule books, in multiple places, but it is indeed only explicitly stated for indoor. The umpires manual is even more ambiguous.

Without finding a definitive statement I'll change my opinion and agree with "coach of coach" for now, it is legal though unorthodox, I do feel I am missing some guidance doc. To be honest I am shocked, but can admit I was wrong.

As a libertarian, I think this low-life should be banned, fined, and possibly charged with criminal intent of forgery.

Social distancing? Seriously? Liberals are officially ruining this country.

MAGAKAG

The bible of T&F has deemed it official. Rojo do you agree with the bible of T&F?

Is T&FN still around? Their day in the sun is long over. If Rojo says it has to be asterisked , it’s is a 3:59*

Rojo is actually a heathen to the sport. I thought he and his brother started this site to support the sport, not be a heathen. Which of these athletes have not been denigrated on this site: Centrowitz, Rupp, Webb, Hall ...... and so on. What other running site regularly denigrates some of the greatest runners in US history? Only this site.

TheseKidsUnderstand wrote:

Rojo is actually a heathen to the sport. I thought he and his brother started this site to support the sport, not be a heathen. Which of these athletes have not been denigrated on this site: Centrowitz, Rupp, Webb, Hall ...... and so on. What other running site regularly denigrates some of the greatest runners in US history? Only this site.

This site shows why the world is so F***** rihgt now and so divided.

In the modern world, people don't like to question anything. They just want affirmation. They can't handle the slightest of critiques - you must be 100% for or against someone.

How in the world am I denigrating the kid? I just wondered if he would have broken 4 with a waterfall start and if we should note that unlike every mile race I've ever seen, they started in lanes (which is how I think they should start). I didn't know that more than 50 years ago Jim Ryun also started in lanes.

All I asked is if we should put a tiny asterisk next to it? The answer from most people seems to be know but for some reason me asking it is causing half of you to lose it as people don't like to question anything any more.

All I ask is to put an asterisk on your name since you are one of the founders and biggest trolls on this site. May you have a n asterisk on your forehead for all of time Rojo.

coach of coach wrote:

NFHS and T&F News maintain HS records. They are official. Can't you guys just come here and be happy and congratulate these kids.

this is a little misleading, though i agree with the sentiment. the truth is, rojo could make his own list, put asterisks wherever he wanted, and it would be as "official" as t&f news' list. nfhs follows its own set of rules, and it's likely that if he'd actually broken a record, it would not have been validated by nfhs (and nfhs does not keep an all-time list, only the actual record holder, which for the mile is jim ryun, and for the 1600 is alan webb). look at the wikipedia site for "list of united states high school national records in track and field" and you'll see the mess of what constitutes a record (for example, kim mortensen's wiki page says she's the 3200 nfhs record holder at 9:48 in an official all-h.s. state championship qualifier meet, yet the nfhs page lists bethan knight's 9:53 because it was a 2 mile at an all h.s. post-season "national" meet--very confusing and confounding).

what leo did--and it was undeniably amazing--was make t&f news' list of sub-4s by americans. i'm not sure t&f news has any stated official parameters to make this list other than this:

"The list is for actual mile races, not any conversions from the 1500 (where a 3:42.22 is equivalent to 3:59.99) or the 1600 (where 3:58.61 is required). Dual citizens are not included unless they represented the U.S. internationally. Those with retroactive drug bans have been removed from the list."

though not stated, road miles are not accepted either.

bottom line: anyone can come up with a list and rules and parameters (accepting road miles, sub 3:42 1500s, etc.), and have all their besties validate said list. and anyone can choose to disregard t&f news' list (which already has leo on it), but as the "bible of the sport," it has at least some credibility beyond the average letsrun poster, or even rojo...

that's my story and i'm sticking to it,

cush

p.s. in 1983 and 1984 at least, california used lanes to start their 1600m races at the socal and norcal regional meets to qualify for state. not sure if they used them at state those years with only 8 (i think) qualifiers (i was not one of them), but the regional meet had 9 qualifiers for the socal final, all starting in lanes for one turn, and top 4 went to state. it's the only 1500/1600/mile i've ever started with a one turn stagger...

quote]

This site shows why the world is so F***** rihgt now and so divided.

In the modern world, people don't like to question anything. They just want affirmation. They can't handle the slightest of critiques - you must be 100% for or against someone.

[/quote]

“This site shows why the world is so f*cked right and so divided.”

YES AND IT’S YOUR WEBSITE. YOU’RE THE ONE WHO IS CREATING DIVISION!!!

YOU don’t like to be questioned. YOU can’t handle the slightest criticism. YOU need people to be 100% for you

NO ONE SAID you weren’t allowed to ask questions. They are criticizing the manner in which you’re doing it! And YOU can’t handle that criticism!