Does Leo Daschbach's record deserves a tiny asterisk since the start of the race took place in lanes, not a waterfall?

Dumb states run single waterfall with 24 runners.

Derby '64 wrote:

rojo wrote:

the fact is none of the other sub-4 miles in US high school history started in lanes.

Wrong. The first high school sub-4 mile (Jim Ryun, 1965 Kansas) started in lanes

and the 1964 Kansas state meet mile also started in lanes, which I should know as I was in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaGDIKoh-g8

Clearly the best post of the thread! Well done.

I think the thread topic was perfectly reasonable, and am not surprised that a lot of posters immediately stooped to throwing insults, as that's unfortunately typical of the letsrun community (which is lessened by the prevalence nasty, sophomoric trolls), but it's nice to see an appropriate and educational response.

Staggers are allowed.

No asterisk.

I would say that the 4 HSers that broke 4 in an actual HS only races make up the legitimate HS sub 4 list and the ones that did it against pros and elites at meets like Pre are the performances that deserve the asterisk.

For example, Webb's 3:53 at Pre was incredible.

...And he was paced to that time by El G.

Daschbach's 3:59 was most definitely not paced by anyone near El G's credentials by comparison. (No offense to these guys, especially the kid that paced a 2:01 @ 809)

Leo Daschbach deserves full props for this performance.

Especially in light of the current pandemic and the inability to get in any meets to build up to peaking. If he can hit 1:49 & 3:59 with no races leading up to it, he could easily have attained sub 1:47 & 3:56 with a few more meets in the season.

This and his 14:14 xc puts him in very rare air.

Derby '64 wrote:

rojo wrote:

the fact is none of the other sub-4 miles in US high school history started in lanes.

Wrong. The first high school sub-4 mile (Jim Ryun, 1965 Kansas) started in lanes

and the 1964 Kansas state meet mile also started in lanes, which I should know as I was in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaGDIKoh-g8

Rojo goes home devastated.

Pointless thread. Kid ran a mile, around a track. Doesn't matter where he started or finished we know for certain it was a full mile.

The epitome of an internet message board. Arguing about sh!t that means absolutely nothing.

The Competition Is Internal wrote:

Agree with Rojo it makes more sense to start in lanes.

Personally, I don't care what any rule book says about this: Daschbach broke four and no rewritten history will change my mind.

agreed

Of course, Ryun paced the other boys in the race, running in first the entire race, and ran his 3:58 on a dirt track. That was probably worth 3:51, 2 seconds for no drafting, 3 seconds for three laps for no pacing, and 2 seconds for the dirt track.

Staggering wrote:

I would say that the 4 HSers that broke 4 in an actual HS only races make up the legitimate HS sub 4 list and the ones that did it against pros and elites at meets like Pre are the performances that deserve the asterisk.

Which 4? Ryun, this dude, Webb indoors?, Verzbicas? Hunter?

Brofessor wrote:

Staggering wrote:

I would say that the 4 HSers that broke 4 in an actual HS only races make up the legitimate HS sub 4 list and the ones that did it against pros and elites at meets like Pre are the performances that deserve the asterisk.

Which 4? Ryun, this dude, Webb indoors?, Verzbicas? Hunter?

Verzbicas was in a HS race (Adidas HS Dream Mile)

Slagowski's was in a HS race (Nike Jesuit Twilight Relays)

Ryun and Daschbach make four total to have done it in HS races.

Webb indoors was against professionals, as was Hunter's.

Thank you Rojo, clearly not the correct legal way to start a mile race, and certainly not what is "normal" for a high school meet, despite perhaps being used in the past in isolated (and perhaps even sanctioned) cases. Sure rules are commonly broken at many meets but it doesnt make it right.

Making up your own rules to your own competitive benefit is just asking for people to question the marks. Why a race official allowed the rule to broken is beyond me, it is pretty well known rule.

My guess is the USATF official was just there to help, probably a friend, not to verify compliance. A search of USATF sanctioned events failed to show this event included. Again hate to be "that guy", but sanctions promote accountability and are in place for a reason.

It was a fun event and certainly support them doing it, but your correct it certainly needs an asterisk due to the start. It was a great event,the results are just not "valid".

What rule was broken to make it illegal?

You are incorrect. The start is legal.

coach of coach wrote:

You are incorrect. The start is legal.

Only in the George Costanza world of "it's not illegal if you believe it isnt"

It was a great event and great to see those fast times in high school only competition, but this is pretty straightforward.

hate to be "that guy" wrote:

coach of coach wrote:

You are incorrect. The start is legal.

Only in the George Costanza world of "it's not illegal if you believe it isnt"

It was a great event and great to see those fast times in high school only competition, but this is pretty straightforward.

Can you point out the rule which was broken?

I would hate to be you too, Le Douche.

Has anyone told Jim Ryun that his 3:55 doesn't count anymore because they started with staggers??

Do the state high school athletic associations of Colorado, Utah, Michigan and California realize that one particular LRC poster, some call Sir Douche-Nozzle, says no staggers means all of their past 1600 athletes results are invalid?

No double, triple, quadruple, or 6x waterfalls either!

Newsflash!

Entire mile & 2 mile records are to be wiped if any State has run their championships with staggers, so says Mr. "I hate to be that guy"

I was the first to point out that the rule that was listed is for indoor. There is no such rule for outdoor. The race was in compliance with the rules. The official verified everything.

Hounddogharrier wrote:

Gotta agree with Rojo on this one. Also, no rail. Have to *** this one.

No rail, no record.

End thread.

stickeller for the rules wrote:

Hounddogharrier wrote:

Gotta agree with Rojo on this one. Also, no rail. Have to *** this one.

No rail, no record.

End thread.

Them’s the rules . It gets the asterisk!

Does this race/time trail count for anything as far as the record books are concerned?